Ditch AV and return to stereo?

Been pondering this for a while. It's not a dissatisfaction with AV but more for a couple of other reasons:

1. We will almost certainly move to a bigger house in a year or two giving the option of separate AV and stereo systems e.g. family room with a discrete AV set up and a library type room (open fire, no TV) for stereo.

2. In the meantime I could do with some spare cash (credit cards etc.) and I figure I could get a pretty good stereo set up for approximately half what my AV set up is worth second-hand (around £3.5K).

So, with £1750 to play with I was thinking of something like this:

CD = Naim CD5i (£825)
Amp = Naim Nait 5i (£699)
Speakers = Tannoy Revolution R2 (£220 - r.r.p. = £399)

Now, the CD5i/Nait 5i got a cracking review in HiFi Choice - detailed, driving, musical sound with all the P, R and T one could wish for (plus some image depth surprisingly thrown into the bargain). Seems like a great combo and good value.

Speaker choice might be a bit surprising but, again, a great review (by HiFi Choice again), beautifully finished (real wood veneers) and now available at little more than half price. They would be a good size for where I want to put them and I figured that their slightly laid back sound would be fine in combination with the more upfront presentation of the Naims.

What do you lot reckon? Would this lead to me rediscovering my entire CD collection?

Matt.

 

Well... spending a comparable amount of money all told, I got a second hand NAD S500 (last year) / S300 (pending) front end and reduced-in-a-sale Quad 22Ls (a few months back). If that's any help at all

 

Matt, you are not going to buy new are you?

If you want to go the Naim route, I liked Julians CD5/hicap/Nait5/ combo. I suspect you could pick these up s/h and get some nice speakers within your budget. Maybe even go for a s/h 72/hicap/140 combo.

 

If you want to go Naim try the older pre-powers. You'll get a 32/140 or a 62/140 for that money. Mine work really well with my Kef 35.2's which you can pick up at really good prices if you look around, then why not try the Naim CD5i. I prefer my pre-powers to the Nait 5, but I haven't heard the i.

 

Well I thought it was tempting given the newer 'i' models are significantly cheaper than their predecessors, allbeit with less features/flexibility.

An alternative I guess would be to pick up an ex-dem NAC112/NAP150 combo for about £1100 but then the money's going up.

To be honest it was this glowing HiFi Choice review that made me think the CD5i/Nait 5i would be worth going for:

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=2791

Matt.

 

robbo,
i don;t think you heard my nait 5 bare. iirc it was only used as a pre with a flatcap and a nap 250.
matt,
i'd definately look at a naim pre / power if only to cross them off the list. as always i'd suggest a chat to james at tom-tom audio.
cheers


julian

 

I actually wasn't that impressed by James, I found him grumpy and not that helpful. When I rang him about stock that had been updated on the website he said it was already sold. Several updates later it's still there. I got mine by asking around at PFM and the pre off ebay

 

I've got a pretty good relationship with both Audio Excellence and Radfords in Bristol so I'd probably deal with them. They both often seem to have some ex-dem Naim gear from time to time.

On the pre/power side, I have spotted a NAC112 on ebay at the moment at a good price - I'll keep an eye on it as that plus an ex-dem NAP150 might end up costing not that much more than a new Nait 5i. Also, on the 5i front, don't forget that the 5i now has equal power to the NAP150 - I do appreciate, however, the benefits of keeping pre and power separate.

I'm also wondering whether dealers will discount at all on Naim - would it be too much to expect a 5-10% discount if buying both a CD5i & Nait 5i? I guess I'd have to ask to find out.

Finally, has anyone an opinion on the Tannoy R2 (both in itself and as a potential partner for Naim)? Basically, in the HiFi Choice blind listing tests (where it competed against all sorts - some way more expensive) it won both days which they said was very impressive at £400. For £220 they sound like bargain of the month, especially given their truly gorgeous cosmetics.

Matt.

 

Matt,

all of this is highly subjective, and rave reviews mean nothing unless you are trying to justify your purchase to others.

You simply must listen to this kit before parting with any readies, and do compare it with alternatives, particularly the Tannoys

 

Matt,

I'd look at second hand old style Naim for the best value for pound spent. If you get something recently serviced you know it will carry on like new for years. Assuming the Tannoys are reasonably efficient how about a 42.5 + 110 or a 32.5 + 110? My brother uses the former and it really is a good system (Rega Planet + Musical Technology Kestrels).

Cheers

Jason

 

Hi Matt, I've heard these a number of times and I think they are very laid back. They sounded very good with certain Marantz kit but with something more neutral they were too bland for my liking. I prefer the "real" Tannoys, i.e. the large Dual Concentrics, plenty available s/h. Also, Tannoy stopped producing these a while ago, could explain the bargain price.

Having said all that the best way to judge is to have a listen, with an upfront source they might sound good, as you mentioned in your earlier post.

 

Their earlier "olive" amps are coarse and unrefined compared to the new stuff IMHO; that said, I use a CD5->Flatcap into a NAIT3 with pretty good results - though only after swapping my Rega Elas (now off the back of the Rega Mira 3) with my ancient Mordaunt-Short MS25i; for some reason, the system sounds MUCH more musical now! I'll get the tweeters replaced on the Elas soon, but maybe their naturally forward balance is too much for the older Olive stuff??? (the Elas sound fudging fantastic on the Rega Mira 2 though!)

 

Funny you should say that Dom as I've been thinking about Elas and speakers recently. Mind you when I was buying I was counselled away from the olives, the chrome bumpers apparently having a better sound. Don't know if that's true having never tested the theory

 

I should add that Plan B is to make the AV system more discrete; replace the Tag AV32R/Rotel RB985II with a Pioneer AX5i (which would I-link to my Pioneer 757i), replace my Monitor Audio GR10s/GRC, KEF TDM34’s with five Gallo A’Diva’s and to maybe find a smaller sub. I would then build a new separate 2 channel system when we move to a bigger house.

Trouble is this revised AV set up would be nowhere near as good in stereo as my current system, it would be a step down in home cinema sound and wouldn’t save me that much money.

On top of this, one could argue that with the frightening pace of home cinema development, it might be better to build a stereo system now (that will have a long shelf life) and to wait a year or two on the AV side by which time no doubt there will be newer better features available for less money.

Matt.

p.s. Plan C is to change nothing apart from replacing the KEF dipoles with WM’s Monitor Audio GRFX’s when he comes to sell them. This wouldn’t save me any money at all though.

 

Well, I've taken the first step - my Tag AV32R BP-192 7.1 is now on the avforums classifieds: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140419

Matt.

 

I've had my R2s for about 2 years. I love them. But I havent been into HiFi long enough, so please take light on my words.

Had Dali 109 (monster-party-speakers) driven by NAD 3400 for many years. Upgraded to Tannoy Revolution R2 and all my CD's got new life. Now I'm upgrading the NAD to Myryad MI120 biamped with Myryad M240. My CD's has now got new life again!!

To get even more controlled bass I'm going to fill them with lead/sand. There is a separade compartment for this in the R2s.

They are quite small for being floor speakers, so it should be no probs for you to take them home for a try.

My Myryad MCD200 + MI120 +M240 arrives on monday. I'm so excited... feel like a child at christmas.

Good luck.
/Michael

 

Arcam have just launched the new CD192 at £850. It replaces the CD82 and CD93 and uses the upsampling multiDAC. The Arcam A90 amp would be an obvious partner.

The Arcam CD93T can be picked up for £700 (Sevenoaks) and is a bargain at that price (but black ones are in short supply).


Also, Radfords have a pair of Rega Elas at £549.

 

You know you are going to waist a lot of money, particularly with the TAG, (it iches to have something that you thought was forever upgradeable but isnt ), I was very lucky I had just sold mine when the crash happened...

Any way it still is a good piece of kit, and you cannot get anything as good for the money you will fetch selling it, I sujest you enjoy your system and forget upgraditis until you are happily in the new house... :beer:

 

Good advice Antonio but thankfully I shouldn’t lose too much on the Tag as I bought it second hand for £1500 (new price was £3400) and it would appear to be worth around £1350 now (based on what others have sold for). Coincidentally, I should be able to actually make up most of that shortfall on my subwoofer which are now selling second hand for more than the last new price!

I’m pretty much set on having two separate rooms – on for AV, one for stereo and, although I want something decent on the AV side, I’m thinking more of a £1K AV amp coupled to some really small but decent speakers e.g. Gallo A’Divas wall mounted (with wires hidden) below a decent sized plasma/LCD screen. I appreciate what a top AV processor can do but if it’s for movies only then I’m not willing to spend the extra thousands when the likes of Pioneer’s AX5i/Denon A11SR etc. will provide great DD/DTS sound.

The advantage of selling up and just getting an amp, CD player and some slim floorstanders are that it will make the current room look a lot bigger which, amongst other things, will win me some brownie points besides which we will probably go from carpet to hard floor and I’d much rather have only two speaker cables to hide rather than 5 plus the sub!

Also, the stereo set up can then be quite simply moved into the second reception room of the new house at which point I could maybe add a turntable.

A new AV set up could then be put together for the ‘family room’ in the new house by which time there will be new AV gear out or the current AV gear will be cheaper. Prices are just coming down and down in this area – for example I was just reading a glowing review of Toshiba’s latest DVD player with PAL/NTSC progressive scan and built in decoding (should you need it) – stunning picture quality they said - the retail price = £79.99!! Another year or so and they’ll all have HDMI outputs and the price of plasma’s and LCD screens will have come down.

So, as you can see – I have thought it through.

Matt.

 

You did well buying second hand...

I am not sure you can get 1.500£ nowadays, but good luck for you...

When friends with a small room ask for advice, I recommend a reasonable universal player, for instance the Denon 2200 with or without external DAC for CDS, plus stereo amplifier and a good pair of speakers with or without a subwoofer, it would allow you to still have AV, and in the new house you would then get a better CDP and use the universal for AV...