Do cables make a difference?

Not wishing to go over (very) old ground here but; last night the wife was out and the kids in bed so I had a free evening - what else is there to do but tinker with the hifi equipment? I decided to try out as many cables as I could find to guage their effect on the sound of my system - Pioneer DVD868-AVi DVD player as transport, Chord DAC64 DAC set to 4 sec buffer, Icon Audio Stereo 40 amp and Sonus Faber Concerto speakers with external crossovers.

The cables I played with were:
Speaker cables - Chord Odessey, No Name 4mm2 OFC and SSX-102X LC-OFC (Hitachi) - all single runs
Interconnects - QED Silver Spiral, MAD Pearl, Stinger Dream tripple sheilded OFC and Renaissance Audio Silver
Mains - The original thin bit of string, LAT AC-2, Eupen, Kimber Power Kord and a home made cable (armoured screened 4mm2 with MK plug and Wattgate)

First I tried the speaker cables. The Chord gave the best sound stage and detail, but was a little bright. The No Name crushed the soundstage into a single point, increased the bass and cut back the harshness and trebble but lost most of the detail. The SSX-102X was somewhere in between but closer to the Chord, a reasonable sound stage and bass but a loss of detail. I settled on the Chord and used that during the rest of the test.

Next came the interconnects. The QED gave a reasonable amount of detail and sound stage but was very harsh. The MAD opened everything up and presented more detail, like removing a veil. Unfortunately it was quite a "thin" sound. The Stinger seemed great at first, a little loss of space and stage but a very warm and mellow presentation. This quickly became irritating as I realised just how much information was being masked. Finally, the Renaissance, very much like the MAD but with more body and detail but a smaller sound stage. It was difficult to choose between the Ranaissance and the MAD and I may change them about again at some future date, but for the time being I went with the Renaissance - the only warning is that it's unscreened and thus particularly sensitive to the proximity of mains cables.

Finally, the mains cables. I used these for both the DAC and the amp, both fed from separate spurs from a dedicated consumer unit. My first shock was how much difference they made - as much as the other cables. I started with the originals in to get an idea of the sound - no sound stage, detail and timing. The LAT was a bit better but not much. The Kimber and the Eupen both gave a great soundstage, great detail and good timing with the Kimber having a little more "Air" and the Eupen more "Body". Finally, the home made job - thickened the sound losing detail when used for the amp but really shone when used for the DAC - clearing up the sound even further and revealing details that I had notrealised were there.

As it was not quite midnight yet I decided to try one last thing. I took my old RA Silencer and plugged it into the DAC's spur - pretty good - a deeper sound stage with better separation of the different musical elements. Next I tried it in the amp spur - wow more of the same - so there it stayed.

Now for the conclusion: cables definitely make a difference and can improve your system. HOWEVER, the differences between the most different cables were about 20% of the difference between two components. Even taking the cumilative effect of all of the cables and the Silencer together, I would still expect a greater change from swaping components. I would say that playing with cables should come a definite last after you are reasonable happy with the sound of your system - use them to get the best out of it and tweak the final sound to your liking.

As a final thought - at the end of the session I took an old rug out of the garage and put in on the floor between the listening position and the speakers (the room has wooden floors). The change in the sound was as great as any I had heard that evening!

 

Which only goes to prove the old saying "Many a mickle makes a muckle". Concentrating on just one area will bring improvements but it's better to think of the broader picture. I've long maintained sorting out setup (mains, cables, stands, room) is the first thing to do before worrying about the boxes but then flexibility of approach is needed to accomodate changes.

 

Tom (Alves) I'm shocked we agree
So in essence Tom are you saying that dac64 responded to power differences? surely not?
Maybe woofie & co will pull out all the stops, in preconceptual physco-acoustic 'Your Lovin' it ' theme
This I'll be good............

 

NOS-4-A2
Were they blue sheated cables?

 

Dear WM

Just 'cos I have a "One Manufacturer sistem" don't mean I'm unaware of other kit. (See the 552 thread on PinkFish). To me setup is the foundation of a good system and the boxes are of secondary importance. If I'd gone down a different path 20 yeqrs ago I'd probably be doing the cable thing with the best of them. :MILD:

 

Take a bow Tom :tempted:
For the record cables are only part of the picture not the whole spit roast.

 

So it looks like that 'marketing genius' Russ Andrews was right after all i.e. to spend 90% of your budget on cables and the remaining 10% on the electronics or boxes. It's great to see that he was right all along and that there are people out there who follow and benefit from that advice.




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

Not only that but I agree to. With the obvious point that with a fixed set of gear you can improve there performance with the correct use of cables. I was going to say fine tune, but I think rather it allows the equipment to work more in line with there design aims.

 

Tone - do you think it's within your ability to make a post without a snide comment in it? You've made your point, the horse you are flogging died some time ago

Michael.

 

I find it hard to choose cables and stands before having the boxes...

Having said that, I also think you need the right mains, cables and stands to take what the boxes can give, as long as the boxes fit the room and each other right...

 

Agreed for the room but how do you select the cables and stands before the boxes - the stand has to physically fit the boxes and the cables that work best for any particular setup may not be the best with another. Surely, it's sensible to pick the boxes that give you the most pleasing result initially and use the cables, stands etc. to bring out the best/tweak the sound to your preference?

Yes, although I have not had time to fully try out different mains conditioners on the Dac64 to see if there are any further benefits to be had from isolating its switched-mode psu from the rest of the system.

They were once the special paint had dried

I believe that you've hit the nail on the head.


All of which leads me to the question (no pun intended - much): does anyone know of a company that carries a good range of cables at different price points and from a range of manufacturers, can offer impartial advice and offers a home trial/demo service for the cables?

 

The benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing. I realised the important part of my hi-fi was setup, not the £1000s spent on boxes. I only realised this once I'd spent those £1000s.

 

:lol: What a great thread title

 

yes
and the answer is Yes

 

They certainly make a night-and-day difference to this forum

 

indeed

 

What a nice collection of interconnects you have. Not sure how you did the comparison. If I am not mistaken your DVDP has 2 set of analogue outputs. If you are still interested try connect 2 of your interconnects between the DVDP into the amp separate inputs. Now by switching between the two inputs using the remote you could compare 2 pairs of interconnects quickly.

When you think you could tell them apart ask your wife/friend to do the switching behind your back and conduct a ABX and see if you could still identify X. Let us know again when you have done this and I will be very very impress. Go on. Prove Wolfy is wrong.

 

yeah , yeah I know this is sad but,
earlier in the day i was doing a bit of work on the wall behind the hifi . the digi cable between the cd and dac was in the way .
so i took it off and moved it out the way .
i did the job and stuck the cable back on .
later on I put the hifi on to listen to some music (as you do) with the g/f (as you also do)
the sound on start up was really shut in .
my first thought was that i,d accidentally switched the power amp of (treble) went over to the system to check (can,t see the amps from where I sit) , but the power amp was on .
so I switched the amp off .
the treble disappeared .
so , it wasn,t the power amp .
I then remembered that I had removed the digi cable .
so , I removed it and swapped the direction off it .
The sound (and soundstage ) came back to normal .
in fairness the cable is an mit digi ref , which has a "box" on it containing whatever and mit make a point of telling you in their litrature which way the cable should go but have failed to actually put any arrows on it .
now I don,t know why a box of whatever on one end of a cable should make a difference in direction , but it was pretty obvious that there was a difference .
see ,i told you it was sad , but even if it is, it still makes the cable directional .
(to my ears at least - oh and the g/f as she quite rightly pointed out that "it sounded shite" as well)
And yes , if i can talk her into it I,ll test her over the next couple of days

 

Re: Re: Do cables make a difference?

Hi Wolfy

Unfortunately, the DVD only has one set of analogue 2 channel outputs.

Your observation is clearly absolutely correct if you are trying to produce scientifically valid results. I am constructing an ABX comparator link here and will try the tests again when it's finished with the wife picking the cables attached to 'A' and 'B' without my knowledge and recording my results.

However, looking at it subjectively, if I can or think I can (is there a difference?) hear an improvement and that makes me happy, then surely that's route I should follow?

 

I have noticed this effect before when I had my transport/DAC. Now I have a one box player, thats one less thing to worry about

Cheers, Robbo