do you get any front to back soundstage?

i've cracked side to side soundstage, with vocals appearing beautifully in the middle now, but i've 'heard' systems that manage to portray instruments in front of others in the soundstage (though can't remember what components were used). Have you got one of these systems and how have you achieved it?

 

Well... if you listen to close-mic'd multi-track studio recordings it just isn't going to happen. Drums might have a bit, but as the overhead mics are placed above the drum kit, not in front, the cymbals will sound like they are further forward than the rest of it and the tom drums will roll upwards in the soundstage rather than back.

Purist classical recordings and maybe some jazz may well show this though.

Even on very high-end systems I have only noticed this effect a little bit.

 

I don't thank god.

 

I used to have a setup that I reckon gave me a greater feeling of depth of soundstage, as well as width, that I have never managed to replicate since. That system was basically: A Sugden A21a, an Arcam Alpha 6 CD, and a pair of Rogers Studio 1 speakers.

I think the key to the setup were the Rogers speakers, as I eventually sold them in favour of some 12" Tannoy DC's that gave me a much clearer or perhaps more forward mid range that I liked with guitar based music, but lacked the soundstage I got with the Rogers. Although I still prefer the Tannoys, I don't think they like my room!

 

I thought that depth and height were what the round earth 'soundstage' guys meant by the term.

FWIW 'close-mic'd multi-track studio recordings' often have depth.

Paul

 

i get some wonderful soundstage depth on some recordings but very little on others so i think it's more down to the recording than the kit. i'll have a listen to some of my usual suspects and let you know which tracks are really good for this - i think shpongle's (are you shpongled) is pretty good in this regard.

 

Tesnon is right ~ most modern studio recordings will lack this depth. However, there are many recordings out there which exhibit this quality, in the right system. Miles Davis (Columbia years) comes to mind. I'm pleased to report that my (fairly modest) system has width, depth and height of soundstage and will do all that 'flat earth' nonsense to boot I go to a great many concerts & I can hear instrument location, so I like to hear the same at home (after all, hi-fi is high fidelity to the original performance)

 

Yes most recordings.....some radio [radio3], films yes from dvd, occasionally tv via cable provider.

Garyi....why don't you want to hear all the information contained in the software you use ? Seems a very silly comment, the whole ethos of the HiFi thing is to get as close to the original performance ...am I right or am I right ?

The best depth I've heard was at a demo using esl 63's you could walk up between the instrament sections of the orchestra, without destroying the sound image. TT was alphason sonata, amps probabley quad 606.

 

My soundstage is so deep you need a backstage pass. No really. :MILD:

 

Zanash this is very simple. I want to connect with music, I really can't do this when the HIFI presents what would not happen in real life, its a prank, a trick. Its not real and very off putting when listening to music.

 

Phase of course can create the illusion of depth and is sometimes used as an effect to position things '3D' from a stereo sound source.

Knowing how most music is recorded though, I have to say in a lot of cases you are probably imagining it because you know where it should be If something has been recorded with a mono microphone, and most music other than purist recordings is, then there is no way it can have depth.

Room ambience can also create an effect of 'involvement' in the sound but I take it by 'depth' you refer to the singer being clearly in front of the drummer?

 

Plus your second statement cannot happen with two speakers, you imagined it and really does bring home my perspective, I want to hear and connect with music not with tricks.

 

But Hi-Fi is a trick in its self. I don't think there is anything wrong with tricks, imagined or not, if it heightens your enjoyment the music.

 

Yes, I can hear depth with my system, a feature that appeared when I replaced my Naim speakers, and increased with vinyl when I replaced my LP12 with a NAS Spacedeck.
Agreed, many modern studio recordings are fairly flat, but a lot of music I listen to does show depth, so the drummer is behind the lead singer, backing vocals are to one side and slightly backstage etc. It is most noticeable on classical music on vinyl, where you can place the sections of the orchestra quite clearly.
I don't find this inhibits my connection with or enjoyment of music in any way, in fact I have listened to a lot more classical since discovering this depth as it seems much more natural and realistic representation of orchestral music.

 

I get it a bit, but it's entirely recording dependent. If I positioned my speakers 'by the book' (aka the 'Audiophysic Method') then I'd get front-back, top-bottom and of course left-right, but my room isn't really suited to arranging the speakers that way. For what it's worth, I'd rather forgo the fancy imaging stuff for consistency and musicality...

 

After just watching Hitchcock's Rope I just had to hear some Poulenc so the first thing that came to hand was a 60s recording of Gloria on LP. There was so much front to back as there always is (depending on the record) that all I thought was: hmm they've recorded the choir behind the orchestra just like they really were placed, but in this instance I wanted to hear the chorus parts better so I found it slightly annoying. So yes, in anything that records some of the event ambience there will be some depth, whether you want it or not, but I agree that the recreation relies on something different from the way a right-left illusion is created. In a way, depth is less of a cheat than stereo if you can hear it (unless of course it was created by use of reverb on multitrack)

 

I think theres a risk of falling into hi-fi journo talk with this kind of thing. Whilst Ive read 'a sounstage so deep you can walk inbetween the musicians' many times (Mr KK especially) Ive never actually heard such a thing with any system regardless of price. Maybe it depends on what your smoking at the time?

The instruments, voices etc do sound spaced out on my system but I think thats more to do with the quality of the production than anything else.

 

Width and depth of soundstage, no problem. Any decent system will do that. But height? I personally have never heard meaningful soundstage height on any system. AFAIK it's not possible as there are no height information cues that can be recorded.

Michael.

 

Imaging is dependent on accurate phase rendition in the system and the lack of room interaction, normally neccessitating listening in the nearfield.

If you listen in the nearfield, you should get a three dimensional image on most recordings. If you don't, your system is not relaying all the information (Naim). Having said that, the more accurate the imaging, it does seem the less of the much heralded Prat factor IME.

 

Thats me busted I'm afraid, my system runs in mono