Does electricity make a difference?

Discuss.

If yes, say why. Assuming that electricity is necessary (but not sufficient) for hifi components to do their job, what is it that contributes variability in the effect of electricity in getting that job done.

Try hard not to discuss cables, except as part of a total explanation.

Assume 230 volts, average.

 

From my limited experience my understanding is this. The music signal is carried by electricity. If the elctricity coming into the hifi already has noise on it (e.g. from machinery, hairdriers, fridges and the like) the music signal becomes distorteded or masked by the additional noise.

 

My hi-fi won't work without it

 

This is also my summise. Is it universally agreed I wonder.

 

I once visiteda local power station.....on the tour of this coal fired monster we went round the control room. The single operative managed to get his feet off the desk/control consel as we entered. I had chance to have a quick look at the dials and gauages and was suprised to see that the consumer voltage output was at 215-220 and the freqency up arround 66Hz. When I ask why....the answer was "Nobody will ever notice". this seemed to be a regular thing ...it also probabley saved them money. From that day I've always wondered about Mains Quality. Added to that The insertion and removal of a Lynwood Mega condition make a pronounced difference to the musicallity of my system. I do live in sight of an industrial estate and a phone mast, an the wiring of the houses on the estate is notoriously bad [Wimpy].

But your right no main no sound, but I've seen the light [electric].

 

To all you naysayers I suggest you contact your local electricity provider and get them to switch you over to audiophile watts - believe me you will see a big difference.

 

The clicks, pops and general noise produced by both my Old fridge/freezer and my current Central heating Boiler ( Worcester Bosch - less than 3 years old) greatly 'destroyed' my listening pleasure over recent years.

Installing a dedicated Hi-FI electrical spur, with an electronic filter newtwork greatly reduced the severuity of the bnoise effects, but didn't eradicate them completely.

Replacing my Fridge for a new one solved one problem, however my buoiler still caused me noise.
Thye boiler broke down last year and i had to get the 'fixers' out under warranty. I pointed out and demostrated the noise problem to one of the repair men and said i wanted it fixed as the boiler was clearly interfering with the mains ( he agreed) and this should surely be illegal (??).

It was then that i made my discovery...

The noise problems were usually most prevalent whailst my amp was selected to the Phono input, i was using my Rotels integral phono stage at the time. I had also used other phono stages too and the symptoms where always there. At this time however i had also DIY modified my Rotel RQ970BX Phono and was checking it out post modifications. I then discovered that this phono stage was completely immune to any noise my boiler could throw at it , and have been happily noise free for nearly a year now, allowing ny cOmbi boiler to switch on and off whenever it feels like it...

Luckily I think that my Modified Rotel stage also sounds great too, although I've only been able to A-B dem it against My pre amps stage and a Gram Amp 2 so far. IT clearly sounded better ( to my ears anyway ) than both of these... other stages...

Can electrical noise on the mains reduce ones listening pleasure ... I sholuld bloody co-co...

 

Gas boilers are best.

 

ok, I understand why Irregular voltage can upset hifi equipment and I am aware of it, but what I don't get, cos I obviously live in a different world to everyone else), is why Component manufactures don't 'deal' with it, ie build into their psu's a filter to deal with noise, interference, spikes, surges. so the hifi 'JO' has to spend £1k's on getting their mains sorted, which at the end of the day is like trying to stop the tide from coming in, we are going to have dirty mains, that's the 'be all and end all' so hifi should be built / designed to deal with it.
I know I'm gona get flamed from the hifi purist, but come on, we don't live in perfect world, they know mains is variable, so design a product to work with it.

 

Boilers & Pops?

Yes they can be bloody annoying on my Phono input too.

 

Thanks for comments, inc

"Installing a dedicated Hi-FI electrical spur, with an electronic filter newtwork greatly reduced the severuity of the bnoise effects, but didn't eradicate them completely. " Sid&Coke

So, confession time ...

accepting both that electricity is necessary (duhh..) and that its intrinsic to hifi-audiophile reproduction of (for many of us, digitally recorded/stored) music, then unless I hand over responsibility for my total set-up to someone who knows what they are talking about wrt electricity and physics, I have to rise above my limited knowledge ....

I still want to have an understanding of how things work: to be specific, of what the threats are to (perceived) sound quality from unwanted variation in the quality of electricity delivered throughout.

Short of moving or installing my own power generating station, or buying lots of batteries, I take the upstream stuff from my house as given.

I have what is not too far from a general/hi-end system:
a) my mains delivery system, which includes one 'trip' protected system for downstairs sockets, to devices such as fridge, computer, motor for gas c/h, washing m/c, and yes both the AV system (inc TV) and the hifi set-up. [not all are 'played' at the same time, but several can be.]
b) two sockets available for the hifi set-up
c) D class amp + hi-class dac/digi-pre + cd transport + cassette deck + tuner (latter two connected via A2D)
d) single ended interconnects (could upgrade dac to balanced and hence use XLR on dax -> 'bridged' amp)
e) ad hoc mix of mains cables: Eupen and two braided, one a Yello (and crappy extension block, not used for poweramp which has own socket!)
f) kit sitting nicely on Hutter (was Mana)
g) a pair of speakers (Goerst cables)

The overall sound quality is good, with lots of PRaT and excellent tonal quality. But there is audible hiss into the speakers - when no music plays and one is close to speakers, and the D class amp does have close-to background hum. On occasion there is more audible buzz, that seems to be some sort of feedback.

So, does this come across as a 'mains' problem? If so, where to start?

I could look straight for 'answer':

i) dedicated mains spur - one for the amp and one for the rest? one for the hifi and one for the AV? one for both hifi & AV given that both are rarely on together?

ii) a mains conditioner?

iii) improved cables?

iv) replacement for extension block?

Or I could try to understand what the key threats were and tackle those first.

I have read analogy with water, with benefit of filter at last stage for piped water (rather than for the delight of rainfall and babbling brook). Almost seemed like an argument for using batteries! But as with jumping out of a plane, its the last couple of feet/inches that one associates with the damage, although the initial height and the use of devices to slow down the ascent are worth factoring into the equation.

Do you have any evidence/experience that dedicated mains spurs make the job your cables do any easier - if that's the right way of putting it?

- excuse the long and rambling, and my focus on my system/problem, but you know how it is ...

[similar post made elsewhere, in place that might avoid flames that suggest that nothing makes any difference to anything and that all is subjective]

 

Call me cynical but perhaps it's to get you to upgrade.

 

....and once you've spent your £1k on sorting your mains supply, then you get to sit there and wonder if the apparent sonic difference is real or purely within your own imagination.
Hey, someone ought to do a poll on whether you can imagine a sonic difference. No, forget it, that's a crap idea.

 

Oo look.....its the same old Naysayer's creaping out the woodwork. I'm suprised you managed to buy more than a stacking system from argos,

Coz we all know every amp sounds the same.

In the same way cables make no difference , mains cable double so.

As to All those miles of cable from the generation point, a silly little couples of metres on the end won't make a scrap of difference.

It bothers me not what you might think in the privacy of your own home.....but don't spout on this forum where impressionable people might believe the twaddle.

Main quality will effect sound quality ....its easily demonstrated. You know that annoying pop and klick you get when the fridge compressor or similar kicks in, or the back ground degridation from the dimmer switch. These are gross examples of the hash thats carried by the mains. These things are easily removed by the use of mains conditioners and cables. What you have to think of is the analogy with the water filter.

How can mile of water pipe be altered by sticking a water filter on the end of the pipe. Well everyone who has tasted the over chlorinated stuff the water companies offer incomparison to bottled or filtered water will atest to the difference. In the same way a mains filter will improve the quality of the mains signal.

Don't take my word for it......just have a look around a Hospital or similar where clean mains is a must. Why do they tell you to turn off your phone ?....so as you don't disturb the sleeping patients ? or on aircraft, why are various items use is forbiden?

 

Twaddle zanash?

Yes.

No. Mains filters will filter conducted RF noise to a limited extent.

Mains cables woven like the plaits of a Swedish whore do bugger all.

My hi-fi isn't water powered?

..nor does it include any medical equipment.

 

I spoke to an electrician that supplies hospitals fairly recently.

Apparently, even on the expensive machinery you're looking at standard MK plugs sockets and wire.

Spending money on mains cables was one of the few things in hifi that I really regret, a total waste of £150. I now have replaced them with standard out of the box mains cables wherever possible.

They dont just sound no better/worse, they are electrically safer too. Far too many audiophile cables are dangerous things to have in the home. I saw one set of cables at the heathrow show that used just the thinnest see-through cover as a dialectic. A child or unknowing adult could have cut through it with nothing more than a sharp fingernail. It should be illegal to sell non CE approved mains cables in the UK... or at least cables which are capable of passing the CE safety tests.

NB
I know you CAN make mains cables that do affect the sound, Ive just never been able to call that change an improvement. Its just a slightly different take on the sound IMHO. Gilding the lilly if you like.

FOr me, the inconsequential differences in sound and the safety issues make using moulded proffessional cables the best choice.

I cant comment on mains conditioning boxes, because I havent spent enough time with them to reach a valid and fair conclusion.

NNB
I know that attention to the mains is worthwhile in terms of power supplies.

 

Errr..read read I said conditioners not filters ....It might be subtle difference, but my conditioner has a whacking great one to one tranformer in it. I don't see any filter net works.

perhap you need to look up in a dictionary the mean of the word "analogy".

Not water powered ....Its a sad fact is that you have, as has everyone else. Have you never heard of Dinorwic

http://www.snowdonia-adventures.co.uk/images/adventure-photo-galley/pages/dinorwic-power-station.htm

I do think you need to read the thread again....

Then point out where I said you did.

Then you could answer the questions I asked..........

So why did you not take up my offer ?

 

bottleneck......I'd agree !...were talking of a difference an improvement is subjectively down to the individual. But I'd say getting rid of mains bourne interferance was an improvment ...for me. Wern't you at the bake off in MK when I pluged in the little Lynwood conditioner ....everyone in the room agreed there was a difference, as I say wether it was an improvement is down to the individual.

 

cant remember the lynwood TBH.

Ive been at a few mains cable swapping days..

I could sometimes hear a difference, but couldnt really say I had a preference... a bit like swapping CD players of similar value.

Do you find the lynwood does something on valves aswell as s-state?

 

There are plenty of hi-fi wisdoms based on daft or irrelevant analogy. I'll wait for the “it's like the fuel you put into a car engine†one if you don't mind.