Doh!

Well plans for a computer hub for music took a down turn today.

I embarked on some critical listening. I imported Big Buds "Late Night Blues" in a brand new user account on the mac. I imported the CD in Native AIFF format, WAV format and AAC compressed format.

All were routed to the HIFI with standard maplin leads via the standard anologe outputs on the mac.

The mac was all set to maximum volume, however the EQ was turned off in itunes.

The whole lot was through a tape loop on the 52, the orginal CD was then put in the CDi for comparison.

Firstly AIFF. Sounded good but very wooly. The sound was bloated and overly warm. I had the CD running the same track at the same time, switching between was bloody obvious.

WAV. Sounded preciesly like AIFF, and again wooly and ill defined. The girlfriend described it as flat. Very good description, it sounded a bit like it had travelled many thousands of miles and was feeling tired!

AAC. Rubbish.

So here I am back to square one, if the AIFF sounds crap, bearing in mind its the original format and without compression where do I go.

My original assumption was that it would all osund broadly similar, so I could sell the CDi and invest in the optical/dac route.

My fear now is that I can;t do this without first hearing what the outcome will be. I am not confident that a DAC etc will improve the sound by 200% which is what I believe is required.

The only problems I can invisage are the leads, they equal around 6 metres. BUt are in four parts, stereo mini jack to phono converters>phono to phono>phono to phono> femal doubles>phono to din.

Now I am not a believer in cables philosphy as you all well know, but such a long distance might benifit from a single run, which I am investigating.

So all in all dissapointed, where too now?

One bonus, I found an excellent programme which hits amazon and my itunes folder to created a website with all my music on with the covers. I then click on it to get the music started. This is really nice. Imagine the future, I am sat in the bedroom, fancy hearing something, click on to the web goto my site, select the tune and route it through to the bedroom from the sitting room. Tidy.

 

Get a better sound card. Either AIFF or WAV, neither of which are compressed, should sound absolutely fine.

Perhaps the analogue outputs on the Mac sound card aren't up to much? An appalling and unbelievable thought, I know...

-- Ian

 

Sideshow.

I appriciate what you are saying but I don't believe this to be the case. The G5 offers built in digital optical out as well as a plethora of sound options on the software side. I am prepared to except this but if you trawl the net you will find very little in the way of sound cards for the mac.

There is a good reason for this

So saying burnt CDs from the mac sound a hell of a lot better than this. So it could come down to the amplification from both the mac and the hifi, if I could bypass sound control on the mac I think I would have more sucess.

I truely belive that Harddrive based music will be the future, unfortunatly not at this quality!

 

Ah, in that case, you should borrow a DAC and try the optical out into that, it'll almost certainly sound better.

-- Ian

 

garyi

Just a thought! but what is it like with sound on mac reduced a bit and amplifier turned up?

 

Gary,

I have been following your posts with interest. I too am considering the G5 route as I need a new computer and I enjoyed the ipod experience recently - I want that kind of convenience at home!

My thoughts were that it would be well worth replacing the sound card with an alternative that offered AES/EBU out. Cost would be quite high, but fed into a good DAC, the results can be excellent as I heard from a Powerbook into a Wavelength Dac yesterday (USB connection).

My thoughts on the Dac are that it should have balanced outputs. This will enable me to run long interconnects (like you about 6m) to the hifi.

To reassure you, I have heard Macs sounding really good. If you were listening to Radio 2 this morning you might have heard an excellent version of West End Girls, played live by the Pet Shop Boys - all from a 17" Powerbook. So I am convinced the potential is there, I just suspect it's not as cheap as we might like

 

IME 6m single-ended is fine.

Balanced's not much good to Gary, of course, as he only has DIN inputs.

But yes, a better sound card would give better results (Gary, most decent sound cards have Mac drivers, it's an easy replacement). But try the optical out first, it's bound to be better than the analogue outs.

-- Ian

 

Indeed Merlin.

My hope was a budget of £350 to achieve what my 2K CDP does. In the end I think I am rather hopeful!

However there are a number of avenues to investigate. The first and more pertinant is if itunes is the best software for extracting audio output? After all its really designed to store MP3s for the ipod, hardly a great basis for the best quality musical output.

A few thoughts on the G5 for you though.

Its supurb. Now I know people will expect me to say that. However what it boils down to is as much speed as the best PCs I have used with around 100% better graphical interface. PLus of course you get itunes, iphoto, imovie, idvd etc which all really helps tight wads like me!

I am interested in the optical route I really am. but now I am scared about the potential cost of something which may land up unused.

Its a funny old game. I am sitting here now rather pissed listening to inka roads by Zappa on a 6 meg MP3 through the stereo and it sound sblolody marvelous.

I guess it goes to show that if you forget what it really sounds like, it can sound rather good off the harddrive!

 

Gary,

where are you exactly? I've never thought to ask but I could borrow a Dac 64 and bring it over to try. It might help us both to save some money!

 

Indeed!

I am in Watford, Junction 5 on the M1 or junction 19 M25.

Could be miles away, I don't know!

 

Steuth

I'm 15 minutes away and all those ribbings

If you are up for it, I'll have a word with my guy on Tuesday. It will deinately give us an idea of what is possible and whether it's worth persuing.

 

Might be worth having a go on an M-Audio Superdac, if anyone has a spare one to lend you. Well within the £350 budget, worth a try I would think, there seem to be a few people here who rate them.

-- Ian

 

Merlin, I am around next weekend so yes PM me and we will sort something.

I have phono to din leads, so we would need toslink cable and dac.

Could be fun.

I'm nice really

 

Sounds good!

I was going to suggest why not try and beg steal or borrow a DAC to play with.

Following with interest.

Would also be interested to know if using the computer (as in having a few programs running), while it's being used as the hifi source makes a difference. Not sure what the set up is? One hard drive or multiple? Or perhaps a completely seperate computer?

 

Why not take a digi camera along, and get a write up for ZG with photos?

If anyone were to do a poll, I think there would be a lot of interest in PC music (especially as a second system, or dukebox into the main one) (?).

Have fun
Chris

 

For what it's worth - I have an iMac and use iTunes. As there is no optical out on the iMac so I feed usb to a M-Audio Sonica to convert to optical and thence to a DAC64. I have tried many different formats for the stored music and the results have been, at best, average with mp3's pretty much unlistenable no matter the bit rate.

Ooh - I've just noticed that my P-1A had USB in - no idea if it will work but I'll have a go later at feeding the usb direct to the P-1A and then to the SuperDac.

 

I really think this is going to come down to if I can by pass the macs internal digital amplification and just direct out. With any luck this will ne part of the make up of the optical out, by passing all the gumph.

But of course if I am directing from itunes then no matter what it will be going through the macs amplification.

This programme I have downloaded to show all your albums is f**king fantastic. Its called itunes catalog and costs a fiver!

Through my browser I now have the track names and album covers of everything in itunes. Its all updatable and clicking a track name goes to that track. Its totally excellent when you are in that 'browsing' kind of mood!

 

sounds great - do you have a url for it?

 

http://www.kavasoft.com/iTunesCatalog/

Highly recommended

 

My PC and tuner are my only sources now.
I am using an M-Audio Audiophile USB external soundcard now and I am very impressed.
I have tried a few methods of getting sound out of my PC:
Cheapo Soundblaster - Rubbish.
Sony USB to Optical converter into a Superdac - Sounded the same as my cheap cdp in to the superdac.
Audiophile USB SPDIF into Superdac - Slightly tighter and more detailed than above.

Then I tried using the analogue outputs from the Audiophile USB, this was a real disappointment, sounded fractionally better than the soundblaster, but recessed and very flat compared to the superdac output.

However, this was all down to the crappy windows resampling drivers. I found some ASIO drivers for it which do not mess the sound up and it sounds great, easily the best of the lot.

I can't imagine that a mac does anything as criminal as dodgy resampling, but it would be worth confirming.

I'm using an Athlon 900 purely to play music, but have had several networked machines all playing stuff of it at the same time with no glitches or problems at all.
It will make the basis of a really nice multiroom set-up in a few months when I have a house.

The Audiophile USB is Mac compatible and I could probably nip down the M1 if you wanted to hear it.