East Anglian Bakeoff phase 2

Hifi meet this Sat!!

Ah yes, that old chestnut

As we're 10 days away from the marathon weekend of hifi indulgence I thought i'd just ease into a reminder of the score:

18-19 inclusive of October (Sat and Sun) in Ipswich.
Bring whatever bits of hifi you either
a) want to bring and show off or

b) things you've put into your system thats totally revitalised it and therefore convince some others to purchase


As for a schedule, I haven't really thought much about it- depends what people bring I guess- i don't want to drone on about my setup as I'd get far too bored and so would others...it all depends on participation:

as a note, I have a couple of cd players to compare, from budget to mid-end so a high end representative would be welcome. As would a budget to mid-end amp or two to compare and I would be intrigued by any DACs that would make an appearance to judge alongside my Entech. Speaker wire and interconnects aplenty although some mains leads other than Blackcurrents would be welcome. The Kingstons will remain in my bedroom as they're too fragile to keep moving about but any demo of them is more than welcome My MS 860s will probably be the chief demo speaker (as they are the daddies ) although old MS30s and Monitor Audio 252s will be there as well. Speakers are always interesting so if anyones prepared to bring some they're more than welcome.

one thing I'd definetly like to do is a good ol' night out in Ipswich- its a half hour walk to the town centre and theres some good pubs there and i'm looking forward to a good clubbing nite out too!!

Ok. Now for the boring bit. Bring a bottle (or two, or three) and some grub if ya want. There is one spare bed free and we have a sofa bed downstairs and some air bed thing which would be fine in the study. If people don't mind sharing the (largish) lounge downstairs, theres also an old mattress that someone can lie on. So potentially 4 places available for overnight, or if people live local enough, obviously just come and go as you please. Places are on first come, first served basis and please note this is being advertised on Hifi Choice forum so it may come down to time of posting message!!!
There is room for loads of parking too, so if it gets desperate, just sleep in a car (providing its your own, I guess)....anyway

I'm hoping for a good turn out. In the year or so I haven't seen any other Eastern Hifi get togethers arranged so this is your great opportunity to mingle with other Anglian Hifi sorts.


I've probably missed loads of info, so please say and say if you're coming below as well!!

For directions, personal message me.

Cheers,

Rory

 

you missed the bit about bring cash if you hope to take the MS's home

Oh, and will there be a power buy on hoovers

Hope it goes well

 

no hoovers and ms860s will be on demo, but no hard sell! all about trying different combos of kit, not flogging my old speakers!!

 

quick update-

the majority of the bakeing (if thats the correct verb) will be Saturday noon till about 5-6ish

we have lined up so far:
Ultrasonic

Zarquon- bringing high end Densen cdp, various points, cables, supports etc

Dev- bringing DAC 20

P Birkett

i'd like to see at least another 4 people added to that list, and hopefully a DAC64 somewhere, for a nice Entech vs DAC20 vs DAC64 faceoff

Awaiting any comeback from OmigaAudio too.... great PR this, guys

 

I still have intentions of dropping in for all of Sat afternoon - I'm just too disorganised to arrange it! Might get round to mailing Rory tonight...
I could drop 1 other at Peterboro station on the way back if it helps anyone [I'll be heading back west on the A14ish to Leicestershire on Saturday eve] The back seat might have some kit on it.

 

to all those that have expressed an interest, you have pm

areas of discussion
dvd-a/sacd
isolation
supports
headphones
mp3
speakers
amps
cds
dacs
i/connects
spk wire
mains leads
mains conditioners/power blocks

something there for everyone, isn't there

still not too late to sign up, guys

Cheers

Rory

 

Thanks to Rory and George [Rory's dad] for hosting a very enjoyable Sat afternoon.
Nice to meet interesting people:
Dev [TAG Dac20]
Clive [Densen 400XS etc]
Paul Birkett [Beyers etc]
Me..[Peavey Kosmos, Beyer DT48, Primare A20/II]
Rory [MS speakers, Plinius amp, Entech Dac, Pioneer CD
and universal DVD player]
and George, who has a wide experience of audio wizardry.

My day was busy since I drove to Norwich first to pick up some
unfeasibly large/heavy empty cabs [95 litres] to replace my
current unfeasibly large speakers [causing some coldness from
SWMBO whenI got home..]
From what I remember after spending the morning lost in country
lanes in Norfolk, we demoed:

DAC20 vs Entech vs Densen 400XS
Some analogue I/Cs
Some digital I/Cs
Processed low bass vs normal
Compressed data audio vs .WAV
CD vs SACD
CD vs DVD-A

I doubt if anyone heard all the demoes as we were having breaks
and a natter in the kitchen as well

Rory had a good sized room at about 7m x 4m, allowing 3 people at a time to listen accurately [across the 4m]. We used his MS860 speakers and Plinius amp to demo throughout, which were both classy as expected.

<BTW I say "more" when something stands out audibly. This
might mean clearer rather than louder etc..>

The demo's I vaguely remember are:

Entech [less low-mid, more low treble] vs DAC 20 [more low-mid/hi-bass]

£4.99 I/C vs £100s I/C vs £1000s I/C:
Slight cleaner high ['smear' at £4.99 becomes 'sheen' at higher £s] subtle diffences and easy to get confused in choosing. I thought we were very honest and did not try to persuade or talk/up down any choice. I could just tell £4.99 vs £100s, but I couldnt reliably tell between the £100s vs £1000s in this test.
To be fair though, I think you have to try them in your own surroundings/eqpt/music choice for maximum effect - or with 'phones.

The successful demos for me were:

Pauls compression test [2 tracks, each at 3 diff levels]. I could hear slight differences, but at best I could only say 1 out of 3 was slightly off, and I couldnt tell which was the full copy either time. I agree that compression was a very small loss.

CD vs SACD [Peter Gabriel]
The SACD was better, we made soundstage comments about SACD that were not obvious on the CD but I think the SACD was also less compressed - so maybe chalk vs cheese.

CD vs DVD-A [Donald Fagen] DVD-A was a bigger improvement, and had lovely spatial info and clarity vs CD. Personally tho, I reckon a format that needs a TV is pants.

Conclusions?
I can tell hi-rez formats even on a DVD player, and I like them. Both require less imagination/brain power to 'see' the music

I liked the Densen 400XS and preferred it [just] to the Entech or DAC20, though I wouldn't cry about any of them.

Cables? I'm still a sceptic. I accept there can be tiny differences, but nothing I would spend big money for.

Over about 5 hours we didn't get round to playing with mains or speaker cables, tho other people had brought some serious stuff.
Shame I didn't get to demo my Primare amp or phones, but I think people liked my bass processor:

Kosmos

 

thanks to all the people above to coming to the Bake-off- a small crowd, yes, but as Grahams pointed out, there were only realistically 3 decent listening positions and at a push, 2 either side.

Highlights of the day:
Most surprising piece of equipment: TAG DAC20- a very good dac, but imho definetly not worth the £1200 they were originally asking- maybe a tad more musical than my (5 year old, RRP £489) Entech but the Entech really punched back with quite a weightier bass which sounded more enjoyable to at least my ears. Quite a surprising result to my ears considering the amount of very positive feedback both here and elsewhere concerning the DAC20.

Most noticeable improvement: external dac versus internal dacs : I don't think anyone could deny that a DAC can't make a decent upgrade to a half decent (albeit not high end) cd player - I think everyone was in the room where we tried the built in dac of my Pioneer 505 CD player versus using it as a transport with the Entech. It made whats quite a bass shy player into quite a bit of a stormer really.

Most interesting piece of kit: Graham's Peavey Kosmos bass harmonic equalizer thing. We tried Clive's T-Power drum 'n' bass disc on this- it made 'Shake ur body' sound really groovy to my ears, and made the MS860s really work and hammer home some really low tones. As Graham pointed out, really beneficial to some professional PA gig setups, but perhaps of limited use for home, except novelty value. Nice piece of kit though. Think I may use Graham's cd of it in use at work- may shift some subs with it

If I may elaborate on the interconnects that Grahams touched on above-
we tested:
£2000 Nordost Valhalla (with Neutrik plugs)
£600 Black Rhodium Oratorio (with Bullets)
£5??? Studio spares DIY type cable
£0.00 Freebie red and white

We started testing these on Clive's B400 as it had 2 sets of outputs.
The Oratorio and Valhalla were tested first- I thought there were really only very minor differences- IIRC we were using a very well recorded HDCD Linn disc, with some fantastic female vocals on and the Valhalla did the usual Nordost thing of 'brightening' up the vocals, as if to give them a bit more detail. As with all high end stuff, the law of diminishing returns dictates that the differences get more and more minor and at this level, its really just different peoples opinions.

Next, it was the Oratorio versus the Freebie, again on the B400. As you'd hope to expect, there was quite a substantial improvement (or loss...). The freebie cable took out all the low bass , and turned all the upper bass into a very 'plummy' sound, and smudged all the detail. In the higher registers, cymbols became incredibly splashy- again, basically just losing detail. I wasn't in the prime position on this test, so I can't really comment re: imaging and soundstaging but I got the impression that the 3d-ness was completely lost, and it sounded very flat.

For the Freebie vs the Studio Spares cables, we moved to my DV747a: it has 2 sets of stereo phono outs. Like the Oratorio vs the Valhalla, it was a very close call. The Studio spares had better quality metal plugs, and probably better screening which helped tidy the bass up a little but otherwise no real difference to my ears.

I'll let some others describe some of the other tests although I too want to elaborate on DVD-As improvement on the original CD. We used Donald Fagen's 'Kamakiriad' album, and the Pioneer PDS505/Entech DAC were up against the DV747a. As Graham said, much more 3D. Great soundstaging, brilliant treble and bass detail, and the voice was so much more believable. If you have a telly, and a decent setup, get a DVD-A player!!!

Again, thanks to all, it was a really enjoyable 6 hours and hope to have some kind of meet in the near future, where we might even get around to testing mains, and speaker leads!!

 

Hi Rory,

You and Graham have summed up the day very well, so I can't add anything except to express my thanks for a very enjoyable day. As I said yesterday, you've saved me a lot of money!

I feel we must do this again sometime.

Thanks again.

 

ok, did anyone accidentally pick up a pair of reddish coloured Van Den Hul C5 phono leads on Saturday?

it was Pauls, and its gone missing

thanks for reading

cheers

Rory

 

which cheeky bastard has stolen the interconnect? thats a fukin joke.

 

i don't think theres any need for that...


a lot of leads and things were brought, and it was all too easy...

i'm guessing these things unfortunately happen which has clouded the otherwise very positive nature of the day...

 

well it should turn up soon if it was accidently picked up. otherwise some cheeky twat stole it

 

I stole it!

 

Well I want it back

 

Hi Rory,

Do you have contact numbers for everyone who attended? It might have been better to ring everyone as there were only 3 people who could have picked up the cable. Would have avoided some of the comments here.

FWIW, I don't actually remember using any of Paul's kit, so I can't understand how the mixup could have occurred.

 

The last time I saw it was on Friday night when we took it out of the box. I'll check the K271 box, but I know its not in the box with my other cans.