ESLab Tripath based digital amps

F Naa

 

Merlin
SOunds good, a nice alternative to importing 'others'
I may look into it. Are Tact Uk aproachable?

 

I am currently driving my Quad 988s with the PS Audio HCA-2.... I think its a class D.
After some reflection and lots of cable swapping i've found I preferred it to the Graaf tube amp, which got a bit too warm sounding at times and definitely too warm physically.
The PS Audio is partnered with a sugden pre-amp, which itself is slightly warm sounding, the combo seems to work very well, while using the PS Audio direct from my CD player was a touch too clinical.
Anyone is welcome to come for a listen in Edinburgh.

 

As far as I know the following manufacturers use the ICE module;

Jeff Rowland - USA
Henry Ho - USA
EAR – Denmark (I think)
DEQX – Australia.

Michael you are correct it is the same B&O module. However, like most amps it is the implementation of the technology rather that the technology itself that provides the results. Power supply is all important to the ICE modules same as the Tripath.

Henry Ho is a manufacturer in USA that has previously designed 'pure class A' amps that make Krells look like (and weigh like) toy's.

He used the 1 Ohm Apogee Scintilla speakers as his reference design point and has produced remarkable amplifiers called the ICE H2O. Stereo 250s at 250 watts into 8 Ohm's, 500 into 4 Ohm's, 1000 into 2 Ohm's and on and on almost down to a dead short. Monoblock's are 250M.

Prices are around K$2.0 for the Stereo and K$3.0 for a pair on Monoblocks and, yes he builds 240 volt versions. They weigh 58lbs each so freight is not cheap, but with today exchange rates they would still be a bargain – (audiophille talk for spending too much money an the justifying it after the event).

They have be been tried with Martin Logans so presumably should work with Quad's.

There are a lot of Krell's, Mark Levinson's, Bel Canto's and even a TacT making way for H2O's.

I have heard that a review will be along soon in TAS.

Mind the new TacT SDAi2175 also looks verrrrrrrrry nice.

A word on the Danish eAR ICE amp, I have read but not experienced myself that after sales is not crash hot.

 

The Evo 200.4 I purchased was demo'd on scintilla's,it ran them no hassle at all, where as several other amps had a slight problem.
The older ESLabs, IMHO weren't particularly very good, new one's I haven't heard.
The JR 201's I heard now (strangley enough this week), different yes, better humm, more sideways I feel, though still good, definately more "hifi" though (Dynamics were ok!)
One other point here, the Evo 4 is a different animal to the 200.4,although the same 'Tripath family sound' is there more or less, however its more of a refined presenation, smoother too.
The Psu isn't bad in them, better than most, but still room for improvement, and as Merlin has rightly pointed out a lot of the manufacturers are milking it some what.
Going back to needing 'extra's' to bring them out of the shell.
The mono bloc versions I've built have substanicaly better psu's and regulation/storage, (Dual 750va (rms)(belcantos run 1.2kva audio, not rms roughly 750va rms) bpt tranformers per channel, specialy constructed hyper fast serious power handing diodes,250Kuf of serious quality resevre, per channel) yet they still repsond well to mains tweeks.(as do Every PWM amp I've used/tried)
I'm sure in the comming months more & more quality digital gear will appear.
Which you should benefit from hopefully

 

Tone,
Did you use the Tripath eval stuff for that?

I'm contemplating the Tact, at the price and with a home trial it seems seriously worthwhile.

 

Just the chipset, not the board

 

point to point i hope

 

Andy,
Now you know I can't divulge that sort of information!!!!

 

hehe

 

Having had my interest piqued by Merlin's mention of the TacT gear, a google search has revealed precious little opinion on these amps. A search on the asylum and audiogon have drawn a blank as well. There has been more written about the Room Correction (RCS) processors than the amps.

Where opinions have been voiced, they tend to be rather polarised with very little equanimity among those who've heard the amps. I wonder why this should be? IME, components which elicit such responses tend to be very system dependent. Some of the reviews refer to HF cut or boost depending on speaker impedance.

Would anyone who has experience of the TacT sound care to comment on this issue?

reg

Alan, I'm glad you're getting good results out of your HCA-2 into 988s but ISTR that PS audio don't recommend the amp's use into reactive loads. Are you using a extra fat power cable on it? that too is alleged to improve the amp's performance (PS Audio recommend their very own Lab II cable)

:Quad:

 

reg,
I suspect people are talking in respect of the room correction maybe.
With the amp being a anologue>pwm jobbie i think it may be less dependant.
I am trying to arrange a demo with Tact, no feedback yet, but if it happens ill let you know.

 

I hadn't heard that - is there any more info on this? I though they claimed it would go with any speaker.

I'm certainly getting better results with it than I did with the Lavardin IT I had for several years, which surprised me to begin with as the Lavardin is a superb amplifier.

I'm using an ECS power cable, but could not really claim its made a hugely noticeable difference from the normal one.

 

I would day that if you like valves, then the SDA range are not for you really - very dynamic, excallent bottom end control but maybe a little ruthless in the mids. Having said that, if you are looking at sub £1K amps, you really do owe it to yourself to have a listen.

The 2150 series true digital amps are probably the most transparent devices I have used - they do some things better than just about anything else regardless of price. Again however, should you prefer a little something added, they may not be for you at all.

Back from the show, I would have to say the Tact room was sounding far more "analogue" than you might expect - a quite excellent demostration and IMO one of the better sounds at a rather disappointing show.

 

Mr M
Can the mids be sorted at all?

(got the go ahead from the boss )

 

I don't know why people think that the ICEpower is an inexpensive option because it isn't.

Performance of the ICEpower is reasonable, not brilliant. The problem with ICEpower and D2Audio modules is that you buy the module, put it in a box and that's it. There is no way that one manufacturer can differentiate themselves from another in implementation and we'll end up with all amplifiers sounding the same.

Driver chip solutions like those from Tripath, ApogeeDDX, TI and Zetex allow the manufacturer more "tweaking" to get the sound they want, as well as allowing a choice in the trade-off between efficiency and performance (deadtime vs shoot-through).

Discrete class D designs like the LCaudio are more a curio than a prospect for large-scale commercial production. BOM cost is high relative to an IC solution and performance is no better.

 

Isaac,
I did a quick search for the ICEpower module the other day.
As you say, not a cheap option, and seemingly not that easy to purchase as Joe Public.

 

Yes, 100wpc transistor watts is more than adequate IME. Think less for valve watts to get similar loudness levels.

The 125wpc into 8ohm Hovland Radia solid state power amp I used to audition the 989's last year certainly had more than enough power to generate levels in the shop's large listening room that I'd be happy with at home.

And yes, I can confirm now that the 120wpc into 8ohm of the little evo2i Bel Canto that I have is also more than adequate for the job. Yep, the 989's have arrived at last. Was having a play around last night and managed to operate the clamps 2 or 3 times, this is where the sound stuttered but didn't actually cut out fully. Did manage to get the 989's to shutdown fully at one point too and needed a full reset to get sound back - to reset I needed to fully power down the amp but not because the amp had operated any of its protection circuitry but because the protection circuitry in the speakers seems to remember if you've cycled the power in the amp before resetting itself - the Bel Canto doesn't actually go fully open circuit at the speaker output if you use the soft power button on front (you can still hear coming through the speakers - it's more of a standby button really), so a power cycle using the power switch on the back of the amp was required.

There are 100 steps on the BC's volume control. I'd say 78 was about the upper limit on what I could get away with on music with heavy or sudden bass transients before the clamps on the 989's start to stutter in/out. Getting the dB meter out, I was easily achieving 92dB/C at the listening position about 2.5 metres away but sudden peaks of about 96dB/C (@ 2.5m away) were causing the speaker's protection circuitry to kick in.

On the whole, very pleased so far. More than adequate volume for most occassions, but there is definitely a temptation to carry on cranking the volume and not realising how loud some things really are due to sound being so clean. Room shaking effects are possible but don't expect to have your innards re-arranged, not that I'm bothered about that level of sound pressure intensity anyway.

 

Henry,
Meadowlarks out then?
Didnt think you had them very long.

 

Hi Andy,

Nope, I'm intending to keep both ATM!

The Quads doing things that the Meadowlarks don't seem to do, and visa-versa. Between them they both do things that I like, but haven't managed to find in one speaker as yet for under, well about £4k, as that's the combined expenditure on both speakers.