F***ing pay as you go road tax!

What another stupid stealth tax idea to cover up the inadequacies of the governments transport system.

Does it have no regard for pollution? what happens to people who have to drive long distances, eg sales reps etc.

The bit that really gets me is the gps tracking, they'll know where i am and what speed im doing!

Also, who will supply the hardware, it would be very costly no doubt, and the cotract will be given to a large company who profits immensley but still gets it wrong.

Also surely this will all be prone to corruption?

 

The problem is he are heading for a major gridlock if somthing is not done about it soon. What other solutions are there? Certainly we cannot continue adding more and more cars to our roads.

I don't agree or disagree with this, I can see both sides.

 

Has no one thought that the first thing any half decent car electrical set up will do is offer a (probably illegal but so what) disconnection service. If you're not switched on you can't be tracked.

Bob

 

I am sure there will be ways to ensure that people do not have them disconnected.

I do think its too much of big brother, I would much rather support a toll system like the one currently operating in London.

 

Simple solution is to ban buses, and prevent lorries from using urban roads and congested motorways at peak hours. Buses cause far more problems than they solve, especially once councils start putting stupid buslanes and "traffic calming" systems in place.

 

Have you seen Wilmslow Road in Manchester at 8:30 in the morning? Hundereds of buses carrying 100 people each, if they were all in cars we there is no way we can get anywhere. The only reason there is never any rush hour traffic for me getting into the city centre is buses, because most people get the bus and leave their car at home as parking is too expensive and too much hassle.

 

WE used to have public transport before thatcher dismantled it.

 

Here its improved quite a lot in the last few years, the buses are every couple of minutes now. The problem is that is the city centre routes, the not so profitable cross county routes are very poor.

In the old days there used to be a direct bus from Chorlton to Oldham which is a fair distance, now that bus terminates in Manchester.

Better public transport on less profitable routes needs to be introduced but it costs lots of money.

 

Its all well and good in the cities, but what about those where there is no public transport?

Where I used to live, the only bus was the post-bus which left at 8am and would have taken me about 6 hours to get into Newcastle (1 hour in the car). So I would arrive at Newcastle at 2pm, so shift work would be the only option, leave at 10pm (when there isn't a bus, but even if there was) for a full days work, get in at 4am to leave again 4 hours later!!

Even where I am now, the first bus is at 8.00 which would take over 2 hours to get there!

 

Yep I totaly understand that you need a car, my greivance is people who live in the cities with very good bus routes who decide to go in the car when there is no need.

I thnk park and ride is a good idea, as if you work in Newcastle centre I assume there is a lot of traffic, so there should be away you can drive and park into a suburb near by then get a regular bus into the city.

These schemes should be very cheap as well.

I understand people need cars and I am not anti car, I just think that somthing needs to be done to reduce the amount of car jouneys made.

 

"WE used to have public transport before thatcher dismantled it."

Yes and we paid 83p in the Pound on income tax to support it, never forget that.

The simple truth is that we need to be discouraged from using the roads. Whether you like it or not, using the car is going to become very expensive. Motorist who travel a lot should pay more and I think the idea is a good one.

Regards

Mick

 

Mick I fully agree, we have had plenty of warnings but nothing changes, so the only way to change peoples driving habbits is to hit them in the pocket.

Its harsh its going to be unfair on a lot of people but that has to be better than total grid lock.

 

They are already hit in the pocket massively. The stick approach doesn't work unless there is a viable alternative.

A radical approach is needed but this is not it - this idea is simply tinkering, allbeit in a technological (for that read expensive, unreliable) way.

Make public transport free or so cheap that it makes no sense to drive your car.

Raise the age of driving to 21 (phase this in). I mean how many under 21s really need cars and wouldn't this make the roads safer?

Matt.

 

Yep but people can still afford to have cars, I know families where every single person in the family has a car? How the hell they do need four cars for four people? Are they not capable of walking anymore?

Making public transport free is a good idea but it will cost too much. Introducing a 21 driving test thing is a good idea but will be very unpopular although I support it.

One thing I need to with buses is get rid of the pay the driver system, I am sick of being held up for ages while people pay. In most major European cities you have to pre pay before using public transport.

The biggest course of congestion is actually local journeys, people using the car to go to the shops or school which is just yards away.

Public transport has improved but the Manchester Metrolink is a fine example of labour being the hypocrites that they are. They are too busy spending money in improving traffic congestion in London, stuff the rest of the country which has similier problems.

 

I've noticed in the Dundee area a Car Tax camera van. I'm not sure what principle it works on but basically there is Tripod mounted camera with what look like two huge flash tubes either side. They also have these same devices at both ends of the Tay bridge , so if yu don't have any car tax, don't drve to Dundee !

 

I was under the impression that the huge duties on fuel WERE a 'pay as you drive' tax system!

This nonsense is just sabre rattling - there would be armed insurrection if a government tried to impose this, they can't be serious.

Ed.

 

wouldn;t there be human rights and data protection issues with tracking people via gps? surely the european courts would have something to say about that. mind you they had something to say about you having to incriminate yourself if your car is snapped by a speed camera but that was overruled by our current dictators so....
cheers


julian

 

[going off topic]
And you think dismantling the public transport system solved the tax woes? Maybe it was thatchers destruction of rural wales thro the mines closing down? Or removing free milk from primary schools? etc etc etc
[/going off topic]

 

Like Matt F says, there has to be an alternative in place. At the moment motorists are a fantastic cash cow because to a large extent THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. Yes, people can walk 100 yards to the shops and frankly I think that anyone who takes a car such a short distance needs to be shot...

In a couple of weeks time I'm going to do some testing in a field location that is on the east coast. I will be taking a large amount of equipment with me (about 100kg), and the location is out in the middle of nowhere, miles from bus or train routes. Is there really any viable alternative to me driving there with the amount of stuff I have to take, and the time constraints (I need to be there after about 2.5 hours drive for 9am, and come back after 4:30 or so)?

And for getting to and from work... If I was to take the train, I'd have to leave home about 6:30am, get the 6:45am train, get into manchester around 7:20, change trains, get out to oldham station which is still 10 minutes walk from work, so arriving at work around 8am. Bus is a similar story except that the bus stops in the middle of oldham at 8:27 (after I'm supposed to be at work) with about 1.5 miles to walk. The car I get into at 7:45 and get into work around 8:10. I don't know what the bus costs, but the train would be around £15 return per day.

Then there come the days when I move a filing cabinet or washing machine or some other random (read large and heavy) object. How would I do this otherwise?

Motorists who travel more already pay more. If there was any viable alternative I'm sure that many would use it. Until there is, nothing will change.

 

I find myself, agreeing with everything AT says, the problem is the short journies, too much commuting, too.
buses are good, excellent, what is bad is the councils calming and bus lanes.

the school run with the 4x4 is one of the big evils in this, and its largely women.

in the old days, people didn't commute by car that far, its a fairly modern phenomenon, if that were reversed and people just worked locally, some problems would go, but what can you do, that is how it is now.Its not going to change nor get better

we pay more than enuff at the mo., petrol tax is theft, car tax, vat on cars, vat on servicing, vat on mots, vat on insurance, parking charges, camera fines, parking wardens, they are taking the mick.

I actually think sales reps are part of the problem, too, I went with a salesman 350 miles with his wares just to make people aware, nothing happened of it, the cost in petrol, care wear n tear, overnight stay et al.,

lorries bring us our stuff, like I have said before, there is too much around today, if there were less 'toys' there would be less lorries.

yes thatcher's legacy was to dismantle the trains, too. freight used to come on that.

I urge the spineless british to become as active as our friends the french who dont take any p~** takes from the govenment, and civil disobedience is the order of the day. We have the power to bring the govt down if we don't like what our elected reps are doing. that is our democratic right.The only democratic way to run the country is focus groups of people with interests from all over, rather than a centralised body.

we are soooo used to our cars we won't do without them, its a ludicrous attitude to say what has been proposed in the last week about a new aviatiion tax, if I am paying £150 for a cheap week in spain, I don't give a toss if its £155 for an extra surcharge. that isn't going to halt growth at all, and anyone who thinks that is naive, or its just to get xtra cash out of us.

yes something has to be done...what?

Actually, thinking about it, the truck drivers and farmers are mega peeved with the current system, but I think they would barricade downing st and the houses of parl., and just walk away, if this happened, they wouldn't stand for it.

glad I didn't start this thread Isaac may get complaints from mick parry/bob mcluckie