Hagerman Piccolo with Troika

Anyone using one of these ?

I have recently been using a SUT with my MCs but I have just opted for a retipped Troika and am thinking of getting a Hagerman Piccolo head amp because I get the impression my SUTs aren't getting the best out of it. Has anyone used the Hagerman with a LOMC cartridge ?

 

Hmm...my friend Clive reviewed that http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0208/hargerman_piccolo.htm - I'll ask what his opinion is if you like. I was going to borrow it last week and I have a Troika - In the end he said there was some issue - can't remember what now.

 

If you could manage a trial with the Troika, I would be most interested. Cheers

 

OK - will call him tomorrow (well today). he uses a very different system to mine though; no harm in that, but most of the components he uses would not shine in my system and the opposite is also probably true. I use my Troika with a modified pair of Naim 323 boards and a modified Naim power supply - sounds great but then the arm, cartridge and phono stage were all pretty much designed specifically to work with each other.

 

OK, I have spoken with Clive and he has reminded me of the issues. As standard this unit puts out a small amount of DC - if you are using valve amps this won't be an issue but I am using transistor designs that assume no DC will be present. This issue can be easily corrected but at present it has not been.

You will have to use the X20 option as the Troika is only 0.2 output - Clive used 10X gain with the two cartridges he used (both about 4.7 output) - the 20X gain is noticeably noisier (but then it's bound to be).

It depends ultimately on your following amplification. If your phono stage that you want to use it with is valve based, then fair enough - if it is transistor based you would probably be better off just using a phono stage with greater gain in the first place (as I do).

 

Cheers,
My phono stage is a P10. I think I will probably end up,with time, upgrading the signal capacitors to Black gates and fings as is suggested on the Hagerman forum so it should be a fair bit quieter in the end. I know someone who is using it with a Karma and is dead chuffed - says the noise is only wick turned up and between tracks. Did Clive mention the bass slam - that is what I can't sort out with either of my 2 SUTs.

 

I would not necessarily assume that Black Gates will be a definite improvement. I've had a pretty broad experience with changing capacitors and although the Black gates are good they do not suit every position.

Have a read of the review that Clive wrote: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0208/hargerman_piccolo.htm - he was using a pair of very nice SUT's at the time. He does still rate the SUT's and the Piccolo but as he now uses a Decca he doesn't use either. I know he has never used a cartridge with such a low output as the Troika (or Karma which is much the same). In truth, having heard Clive's system a couple of times, I would say that 'bass slam' is not a quality he considers at the top of his 'desirable qualities' list. Certainly my own, very different, system provides very much more of this particular characteristic. I see he wrote this

which would certainly suggest he did not find any significant improvement in 'bass slam'. Of course your SUT may not be as good in this respect as the TX-103 that Clive was comparing too - I don't know. To be honest, although all components play a role, I have found that the power-amp/speaker interface makes a big difference to qualities like slam. Especially when combined with the specific bass loading and room interaction.

 

My Suts are a DIY Haufe transformer based one ( matches the DL103Pro very well) and the old Audio technica AT650. The former was a great improvement over the AT with the Denon cartridge but now with the Troika I find I prefer the AT and it's not a question of gain because that is not a problem with either of them - My Sugden A21Se is never over the quarter past position (25%). It all seems very hit and miss with SUTs and as the Piccolo offers various settings it seems a reasonable bet. I sometimes wonder if it's all worth it especially when living in a hi-fi desert, you invariably end up buying blind but there again, I am deaf, so now I'll shut up.

 

When I was doing my detailed comparisons of Piccolo vs TX-103 I was using a pair of 15 inch sealed bass units. These inherently have much more slam than the current dipoles that I'm using. In this earlier setup I would say that the bass units had far more influence on bass slam than did the Piccolo or SUTs but not all SUTs are equal. You could either classify the TX-103 SUTs as slightly soft sounding or the Piccolo as slightly clinical sounding, which is the case for you would depend on your system and your preferences.

Bass slam is not top of my priorities although I do like the effect. It's just that I tend to tune my system towards certain types of jazz where bass detail is more important for me and if that means I have to loose a considerable degree of slam then so be it. Actually I'm working of a bass setup now that should return some slam but that's another story.

 

On recommendation from a guy on the Hagerman forum, I've opted for the Bugle PS to power the Piccolo so it should be interesting anyway. He swears by the Black gates here to get the noise floor down and also says the bass is greatly improved. In for a penny .........