HDCD format

I reckon that the HDCD format is an upgrade in itself - well it is if your cdp can hack it. I've just been listening to 'Blues in Orbit' (Duke Ellington with variously sized ensembles) which Dunkyboy kindly lent me. Its in HDCD which my set-up can read, and its excellent, both in musical and hifi terms. I'd forgotton just how good that fornat can be.

 

I actually have HDCD and non-HDCD versions of the same recording for a few tracks, and I tried it with my old HDCD player... HDCD itself makes very little difference. The actual recording and mastering plays a far bigger role.

 

How can you know that for sure though Isaac? Can you isloate the only change between two CD's to be only HDCD encoding? Is there something I'm missing?

From what I've heard, the HDCD version has always sounded superior. Not that I've gone out of my way to try many back to back. Maybe I've just been lucky?

Jay

 

The MOST SIGNIFICANT difference between CD and HDCD is that HDCD mandates a much greater output voltage of 4V compared to 2.2V for CD.

If you want to compare any components you need to "level match" them - it's the only way to level [sic] the playing field, because there is a significant psychoacoustic correlation between volume and preference.

 

Sorry I don't quite understand that. I haven't noticed any resultant level difference from HDCD. I'm assuming this is what you mean?

Jay

 

HDCD playback requires special decoding hardware and that even though HDCD will play on a standard CD player, to "get the benefit" of HDCD, you need a Pacific Microsonics (now microsoft) decoder chip in your CD player. Part of the licence to manufacture an HDCD compliant product is the mandated higher output.

It is no surprise your hardware can read HDCD, but how do you know it is actually decoding it? Moreover, can you switch your CD player into "Redbook" mode for comparsion?

 

interesting. I know that my Dax Decade can decode HDCD, but I'll have to look again to see whether I can force it not to. Other than doing the A/B, I'm not sure why though. Its wonderful. Had the same experience with a KDLang live album.

 

Thanks for the reply oedipus but to tell you the truth I am none the wiser!

I understand what HDCD is. Sorry my question related to this "higher output" and when it's applied. Does that result in higher volume?

You are usually alerted via a HDCD light. Are you saying that on some CD players it's just a detection rather than a decoding?

If you could do that I suppose you'd be able to apply the HDCD decoding at will. I suppose that's how you've come to your original conclusion that HDCD decoding itself is not significant?

That was my original question I suppose.

Jay

 

Yes. I've even had a DAC which came with a manual that explained what a nuisance the higher output was, apologizing that this was a requirement of building a "compliant" product and instructions for how an end user (but not the manufacturer) could jumper the board to bring the volume back down to lower levels even though it would result in a non-compliant product (nudge, nudge, wink, wink etc..)

No.

It's "not significant" compared to the increased volume, which as I've mentioned is highly correlated with preference.

 

Thank you. That's crystal!

Jay

 

My CDP decodes HDCD. My own personal jury is still out as to whether it makes much if any difference; I've noticed that all of my HDCDs sound good, but whether that's just down to the original recording/(re)mastering or not I couldn't say, as I have non-HDCD CDs that sound as good as the HDCD encoded ones.

I only have about 8 HDCD encoded discs compared to about 250 not so a direct comparison is not easy though.

 

ditton,
don't think the decade can have hdcd disabled - the only output filter is the pm chip which kind of makes it mandatory. however the dax2 has the facility for 2 output filter chips the pm and another one if this is fitted the pm chip can be disabled completely or only used if hdcd input is detected - for my money the alternate chip kicked the pm's arse on normal and hdcd source material that's probably the only thing that irks me about the decade.
cheers

julian

 

On the cdp's I've been using never noticed one jot of difference (level matched or not )
How is the master of stateside blind test terror these days?

 

The most important factor that we always forget (like our room Acoustic).
I recieved a manger cd test and i played it with my system(Track 13), it was so natural that i can say it was for me like upgrading system.

 

OK, looks as though I'm wrong. What I should have said was that hat I've noticed that the sound quality of the Cds I've played that are HDCD is markedly better than those that are not.

btwm what are the technical qualities of HDCD, and are these superior in any way?

Julian, I note your comment. does tha mean it could be even better??

 

I'm keeping myself busy doing sighted tests of speakers The speakers in question are designed stateside and are (if you happen to be a speaker manufacturer) terrifyingly good

 

Good stuff O, care to share with us these cracking transducers Name sir?

 

HDCD mandates certain levels of quality in the recording/mastering process, so they tend to be good recordings.

HDCD is 20 bit resolution, rather than 16 bit resolution but the sample rate remains at the same 44.1kHz.

Jay - the same studio recording of a song on two different CDs in my collection. One of the CDs carries the HDCD data and the other does not. There was a very slight difference (I believe I posted here about it some time ago) but very slight.

 

There are too few bits on the disk, and the number of bits passing under the laser per second is too small for 20 bit resolution. You'd need to cut the play time of the disk by 20% and spin the disk 25% faster.

What you might be refering to is that, through noise shaping, HDCD can perceptually get 20 bits of resolution.

HDCD is nothing special as this level of perceptual resolution is achievable with standard CD's which have been properly dithered.

 

Hi Isaac

That's how I compared too. There was a slight benefit I felt....which could be easily explained as;

1. psycho-acoustics
2. a real difference

Either way, I thought it was better and I suppose that's what counts. People have upgraded CD players for less Not me of course!

Jay