heathrow hi-fi show.?

Nick,
While I agree with a lot of the sentiments, the time is now right for YOU the customers to vote with your feet.
After all its your money, and no matter how much the 'salesman' states, "listen to this sir, isn't it wonderful!", "just what you really want sir".
Bottom line is, its your ears, your cash, if it does it do it for you, then it doesn't and no amount of smooth talking (Que sales staff looking in mirror) "I love me who do you love" routine should change your mind.
You have the power to walk out of the shop, never feel obliged to purchase anything, especially if the service you have received has been, in any way demeaning/aloof/sneering/condescending or they just look down your nose at you at!! Its simple,just leave.
Though on the flip side, you get the professional tire kickers who troll about the dealers in an effort to assert themselves as having the best system ever and playing one off against the other.
So it is a two way street.
There are some quality dealers in the UK, some genuine straightforward and almost ethical, maybe you can count them on your hands BUT they are around.
They still value old fashion service, manners and go out of there way to help you realistically achieve what you wish for in your given criteria.
Some of the industry is still like this, afraid of change and new companies coming through, doing business 'not of the old school', but none less in a professional and real down to earth manner.
They see this as a threat to there way of life they have enjoyed over the last 20 years or so. Where they're had oit all to themselves and the choices for the customers have been limited.
Not any more, things have been changing slowly over the last 5 years or so, and gathering pace too.
People will part with there hard earned more and more on there terms now, which in a a way is good.
Because it 'forces' is probably too strong a word, maybe 'compels' the dealers to stuff waking up and smelling the coffee'
They will go with the person that offers them the complete package and that they feel they can trust and have the back up if there is a problem. Not just pile em high and sell em cheap.
Or the 'are you sure you can afford that sir? Look
Time to start ditching the doldrums and distrust that is echoing around the corridors of Hifi, time for the customers to demand something better and perhaps together we can all start to help this industry get back up onto its feet again, this time in a more honourable and open fashion.
I'll get off me soap box now

 

Sure, there are some good dealers left. I can even think of a couple.

Sadly however most people are sheep and I have heard from more than one dealer that people just come in waving hifi mag test results and refuse to listen to anything else (when everyone in the know is aware that particular piece of equipment is rubbish). If the shop doesnt stock it they leave. I have even seen it happen myself.

But as you say, as with politicians we get the hifi dealers we deserve.

I beleive some customers have voted with their feet. They have just moved from hifi altogether to other pursuits - home theatre, pc sound etc etc. Leaving ever more deriviative designs from derivative companies fighting over the scraps left of the hifi market. While the more aware punters switch to net buying, 2nd hand gear and listening to lots of kit via the forums as a way to bypass the established industry. Smart dealers might capitalise on that eh tony?

 

Nick,

Cynical to the end I see
I won't deny that a few have gone done this route, though being Honest most of the Hifi fora users really are far more picky than most 'Hifi street users if you like, even more disconcerting.
I would say, If a dealer is purely using forums as a sales tool, they he isn't going to be in business very long: lol:
I doubt if 5% of our business comes from Forums Nick.
People like established businesses, with at least 3-5 years under their belts, advertise regularly have nice shop fronts or big converted buildings.
This is the way things have been and to a large extent still are.
Sadly nick most people don't use their ears to purchase equipment, they get seduced by the array of wow factor kit and 'must have big names' on the boxes.
Though don't tar every one with the same brush, you would be surprised how many 'real world' customers are around, shrewd too which is good.
Because you are feeling Jaded and to be fair a lot of the Hifi fraternity is too, its breeds contempt (understandably)
The whole kit and caboodle needs to take a very hard long look in the mirror and stare deep into the abyss to truly realise how deep some aspects have sunk.
There is a sad lack of younger people getting into Hifi, I know that I-pods/Hdd systems/PC sound MP3's/multi room/Home theatre are very much the way of the world now.
That doesn't mean they cannot be catered for or that 2 channel is a dead duck, it means that the industry has to change and adapt, grow and understand its changing markets.
Those that don't will disappear. Which would be a shame.
The only way it's going to happen I feel, if the gulf between the customers wishes and the dealers mentality starts to close rapidly.
Can't really tell I'm passionate about this could you?
Also the potential clients need to be show a genuine viable alternative to the mainstream stuff and let them listen and make their minds up.

 

Tony,

I haven't needed a dealer in years, and had I used one, I would undoubtedly have ended up with an inferior system to the one I currently enjoy.

There's a number of reasons for that, but in my case it's because there are no UK dealers interested in sound quality enough to stock my choices. I would also have to buy in at a lower level of quality by paying for the services of a salesman of dubious qualification offering me a strictly limited choice of equipment.

Audiogon was a real kick up the arse for the high end. It has severely impacted on the US sales of a number of respected manufacturers and has had a ripple effect globally.

My CD based system has cost me a not inconsiderable £10K. But had I walked into Arrogant Sound and Vision, that money would have bought me a lowish end Naim system or a compromised mish mash of esoteric components selected from a list as long as a pygmy's penis. The reward for intelligent internet shopping is utterly enormous as you yourself know.

The whole UK hifi industry is a cartel, with the same incestuous second rate salespeople and snake oil pushers peddling their wares whilst desperately trying to increase their margins to offset an ever decreasing two channel market.

So I sit at home enjoying an above average system at a below average cost, acheived by bypassing the whole UK hifi retail and distribution chain. I thoroughly recommend the approach.

I am hoping to make the Tokyo show later in the year. They have both far better taste in hifi and a more sensible approach to pricing.

 

Mic,

Your cynicism becomes you sir I doh my hat in admiration sir

 

Oh jeez, I'm in that picture too!

I was kinda hoping it would never again see the light of that day for that very reason!

I'll be at the show on Sunday, with a few of the Wigwam guys.

Have also just come back from a fantastic weekend in idyllic Switzerland, where I had the pleasure of meeting titian and listening to his wonderful system. As a communicator of classical music, especially in a live setting, I don't think I've heard better.

To the surprise of titian as well as me, it seemed to work with Massive Attack too

 

5% can make all the difference between profitability and going under tony . I suspect many such as 2juki etc and many sellers on audiogon and ebay are making a pretty good living. Lets not forget the influx of chinese equipment at very low prices - which the mags slag off, shows how scared they are - as those items move up the market the industry will really start to get shaken up.

I agree about forum users being generally more discerning though. Its the mag readers that are the problem. As typified by the linn naim etc owners buying kit which is actually worth about 20% of what they have paid, in comparative performance. I think the general public should be educated to move away from looks and names and general "showing off" with hifi. Currently the industry is a bit like PT barnum selling glass beads to native indians :S.

I dont feel jaded myself - I have no part of it. Its just observation of human nature sadly. Many dealers have dissapeared in recent times and will continue to do so. As S&M says (!) it is a cartel desperately raising prices and tightening their strangle hold to order to stay afloat. This can only go so far.

I can see you are an honest guy tony and that you have want to set the world to rights so I wish you all the best in your endeavours.

 

I wonder what will come next? As dvd players transform again to HD-DVD/Bluray and iPods/portable media players continue to transform the listening habits of the world, will we see the death of CD players? (forget vinyl for now, thats another ball game)
As Naim et al move to iPod and HDD integration - will the high end accept these with open arms? And by high end I mean >£400 per item in the chain.
Lets not forget todays iPod hoodie is tomorrows luxury consumer, in the same vein as todays citroen c2 is tomorrows merc.

I feel the manufacturers will respond to the market needs and the resellers will follow suit - thats the way it works.

Personally I think the industry needs an injection, something to entice more sheep.

//lamboy

 

i agree totally with what IANBOY says, but will the ipod boys etc. will apreciate two channel ? personally i think not, however there are still a lot of people out there that are still after reasonable priced hi-fi, what makes high end high end ? some of it if not most can not be justified price ways, tha's my view for all is worth.nando.

 

So, was it foot-tapping Naim you were listening to?

 

I would have been, except the sound was ever so slightly spoilt, somewhat, by the ear-piercing ART Emotion speakers connected using Nordost cable - I am assured that Mr TomTom has learned his lesson accordingly!

Mind you, the special edition Avid turntable looked and sounded pretty good.

 

I wasn't in that picture because I got up and walked out - telling then it was utter crap on the way. Nasty sounding. A good example of how to waste your money with a dealer.

 

Maybe for other people that sound is great, just what they love to have. In that case no waist of money.

 

Yeah, that bloke standing up at the back looks to be in shock. Evidently, you had just walked out and he's still recovering from your feedback.

 

I'll be there on Sunday.

Hopefully catching a couple of mates and a quick half .

might even look at some hifi

 

see you at the bar, i wonder what is more expensive! the hi-fi or the bar? nando.

 

Anyone who thought that room sounded great needed their ears waxing Titian - seriously. According to the Naimees, because the electronics could not be faulted, it had to be the cables that were causing the almighty din. A good dealer would have realised that.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever been so spectacularly unimpressed with a £50K system.

 

no room sounds great but no room sounds bad, anyone with "ears" should be able to see or hear the the potential of what the kit is capable of. everybody hears things differently, to each it's own.nando

 

Hi All
As an occasional poster, but avid Hi-fi enthusiast, I will be going to the show(s) on Saturday, and would be interested to meet others to share views etc. Is there any confirmed meeting time/place?

 

hi depends what time all are turning up ! i think by the bar mine is a....juice.