Horns

I just noticed this over on hfc http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=9856

I don't think I've ever had a proper listen to horns. I'd imagine there's some pros and cons to their design, and a different sound to other speakers.

Looking at the spec's of the klipsch speakers Croc mentions there they seem an easy load.

They're obviously on the bulky side, and I imagine need a room to match? What are peoples views on horn speakers sin general?

Cheers

MO

 

The downside is size, and putting up with people arguing over whether Plywood is a veneer..They must be difficult to sell in the UK since audio is about 99% appearance here.
In general? high efficiency makes watts go further, and allows headphone-like dynamics. I should think they are room friendly, because of the thick braced plywood, narrower dispersion than 'fashionable' speakers [ie less room sound], and lean low bass

 

I have heard 2 horns, and they really are like valve amps...in the sense they are an 'anorakish' speaker, old fashioned, big, a throwback to when amps couldn't put out much power.
But to my ears they sound like valve amps too, direct, unsurpassed due to the dynamics and the horn makes the sound so real and tangible.
the bass was fine, drawbacks as always, some are prone to colourations, due to resonances in the horn.
As you know, they have fallen out of favour due to the wives not tolerating those huge monsters in their lovely living rooms, my my, what we guys will do to keep our women happy

 

Fun

Big Horns have a certain joi de vivre. I have listened to the big Klipsch corner horns and they are wildly entertaining when fed a high quality source and a couple of watts.

The problem is of course size. They are huge and in order to get acceptable bass performance, they need to be in the leviathon class. Small horns are available but typically have a normal dynamic bass enclosure which never mates seemlessly with the horn mid and treble. And of course you need the bass for the scale.

A number of guys out in the states battled hard with Digital DSP for years in an attempt to get the famous scale from a more domestically acceptable enclosure, but sadly they failed miserably. I beleive it was called the battle of little big horn

 

Hi,

Horn can be very good fun. The upside is they can be used with very low powered amps & and can have excellent dynamic presentation. They can offer strengths in small subtle changes in the music.

The big downsides are the size. They have to be quite big to get deep bass. They can have some odd colourations. You can hear the effect if you cup your hands by the side of your mouth & speak. Your voice will instantly louder but you will notice a change in the tone. A colouration is added to the sound. Another big downside can be the cost.

Carefully design & construction will limit the the negative effects. Folding the horn makes the speaker physically smaller.

I have a couple of pairs of horns (Impulse H2 & H5) & there are fiun to use. I have heard a good few old & new. I have heard a pair of these and they were excellent. I agree the first thing you will notice with horns is a certain coloration but it can be quite benign & you don't really notice it after a short time.

Even though you can use a low powered amp with horns, you do need to use one of high quality. Like any speaker, you need a good signal input.

SCIDB

 

My personal opinion boils down to this....


Front loaded horns = bad. Invariably too coloured.

Rear loaded horns. Mids = bad. Bass = Good


If a rear loaded bass horn is used correctly it uses the floor and side/rear walls of the room to extend the throat of the horn, thus overcoming the lower bass limitation imposed by this dimension. The resulting dynamics and way that a good bass horn can energise the room has to be heard/felt/percieved to be appreciated. It leaves your average (even good) ported speakers sounding like a wet fart, (relatively speaking).

I think most peoples negative perception of horn speakers is due to the likes of Klipsh etc.. they predominantly use front loaded horns and dodgy old drive units .. the resulting speaker is "colourful" to say the least.


GTM

 

I believe Beauhorn are showing at the heathrow show. (they were there 2 years ago with the B2 horns.

They were a small pair of horns, with Lowther drivers on the front. Sounded a bit honky and 1930's wireless to me.... hope they bring along something bigger/better

Ive heard Avante Guarde horns too, which seemed a step up to me. Id love to hear a big pair of LV's but havent yet.

 

Mind you, I was very impressed with the JBL K2 that I heard recently and this has a front loaded mid horn.

 

JBL traditionally use a mixture of compression horn tweeters / midrange units and conventional bass drivers (Merlin can tell you how good these are) in huge cabinets.
I'm a big fan of the BIG JBL studio monitors such as the 4343 and the new 4348. In fact I much prefer them to the K2 (at least the ones I've heard). Dynamics, groove and a huge, utterly plausible sound (though no poncy 3d sounstaging nonsense; these are man's speakers). They are great for jazz and rock (wouldn't bet money on classical fans liking them, though), but are coloured in the midband - this seems to be a fact of life with horns, and for that reason I'm not 100% sure I could live with them.
Above all they do the groove thang. Anyone who is a fan of soul, reggae or 60s/70s rawk should try to get a listen.

 

Interesting things, horns. Of course you're right about the mid-band colouration but I wonder to what extent advances in technology and improvements in our understanding of horn theory will be able to minimize this.

Ultimately, their size is what kills them. Just as they went into decline with the birth of stereo, I suspect that Home Theatre isn't going to do them any favours.

There are some great aspects to the sound of a good horn loudspeaker and also they extract the most from those valve amplifiers that promise "bliss for the first watt".

However, there are signs that high end speaker designers are starting once more to embark on a quest for higher efficiency. Once the drive units reach a higher level, we'll probably forget all about horn speakers.

 

IME, "High End" speakers simply don't do what the JBLs can do, are not designed to and probably never will be. And when you go high efficiency you need a bigger box.
"Real" horns are another story. These may well die out eventually. Mind you, people have been saying that for 40 years...
Compression horns would probably benefit from computer modelling research with new materials etc. But I doubt there is the market anymore to justify that kind of effort (even if you include the PA market where these drivers rule).

 

Horn, imo are secondonly to electrostatics, in that they can present the music in a very natural and believable way, not hifi like at all.
They may seem a little on the bass light side but, you don't get the boom and tiss of many current designs.
Some of the very best sounds I've heard, and I've heard a lot were made by horns. Even the DIY folded horns I built a few years back, made my commercial £1000 jobies sound pitiful.

But like anything else they will be sensitive to there location and the equipment hooked up to them.

 

Yep Joel, instant rythmn and entertainment. JBL bass is immensly musical and sadly frowned upon by many over here, even though they have never heard it.

You really are spoilt over there! I'd love a pair of 4348's

 

I don't think I could get them in through the front door! But we plan to remodel the living room into a much larger space at some point, so maybe then (and there should be s/h 4848s by that time).
I may even "inherit" a set of four Altec 612Cs (as used at Abbey Road and most other studios in the 1960s). The ultimate HT system, or should I perhaps crack the cabs to get at the 15" drivers....

 

Hey Joel.

The guys at Audioheritage are getting into home cinema

Subtle they ain't! Check out this

sub sat

Whilst a great idea, I'm not sure they'd go with my decor;

 

Eeek
It may (or may not) sound great, but that is one truly ugly system.
How about two of these , you could have one at each end of the room. I'd keep the sculptures and chair myself.

 

Are the fabled Paragon They actually did a smaller version of that I beleive called the Metregon or something. this was somewhat more domestically acceptable, being only 6ft long.

I beleive they still go for around $6K

I think Steve should look into a 7th Veil "Talking Sideboard"

 

That Paragon looks ace. Proper speakers, can also house a drinks cabinet...

Me, I like a good horn. If I ever move to somewhere with a larger living room, a flea powered valve amp and humungous horns would be a possibility. I can hear the colourations and limitations others complain about, but a good horn is much more fun than most box speakers.

-- Ian

 

With two 15" JBL bass cones inside Ian, I suspect it could prepare the Martini's whilst you wait too

Still, I delivered some kit round to a guy in Notting Hill last week who uses the Avant Garde Uno powered by an EAR V20. I was very impressed I have to say, particularly with jazz and classical music. The problem with the Uno's for me was that the bass simply didn't quite integrate (not being horn loaded). But I sure didn't here any of the colourations people talk about and they went flipping loud!

 

You swinger.But I can see you as an Altec A7 "Voice of the Theatre" kind of guy
I have heard a couple of Metrogons for my sins. Actually not very good IMO. All the colouration and more of the horns, minus the dynamics & coherence (admittedly these were not definitive listening sessions so I reserve final judgement). I haven't heard a Paragon. But who cares, it looks sublime, dahlink. It's also a lot more than $6k in these parts
THe Unos... Can't make up my mind on that one. There is something "not quite right" there, somewhere...