How far can you go?

Not wanting to start a willy waving contest,

Had a listen today and played a track (admittedly of unusual production) which exrended the soundstage of my speakers around 12ft left to right, and around 8feet backwards (percieved), it'll sound deeper with orchestra, but nowhere near as solid and 3 dimensional. Track was from Nitin Sawhiney btw.

Anyone know a track that'll stretch even further.

I ask through devillment as this technique is always fun to counter two channels sceptics who figure you need at least 5 speaker to approach realism.

 

Albums recorded in "Q Sound" will do this..."Amused to Death" R. Waters for one..

Regards

 

Nice heads up,

Just listened, then ordered the RW from amazon, can't wait to hear it, so what is Q sound?

 

How far apart are your speakers? Or do you mean a soundstage 12' wider than speaker seperation?

 

Do you know , I actually read it as being 12ft either sid of the speaker
You asking that question has lead me to re-read a bit more slowly .
I think Rewster means 12ft wide in total.
Rewster , when you say about the depth , are you referring to the sound that you can hear behind you ? or do you mean the soundstage is 12 ft behind the speakers?
If its the first then my soundstage is pretty much the same as yours (cd dependent)
Try the Charlatans - Wonderland or Faithless -Outrospective .
Both these cds have tracks on them that will bring the soundstage out so that you,ve got "effects" behind you .
atb

 

qsound is a method of manipulating phase and delay between stero channels to create surround effects. very popular with computer games in the 90's before ac3 and dts became standard.
cheers


julian

 

Try Madonna's "Immaculate Collection" (the Qsound version of "Vogue" is AMAZING !) and "Speakerboxx/The Love below" by Outkast (although I don't think the CD mentions it was mixed in Qsound) for some great examples of what this technology can do.

It's VERY expensive to produce a record this way which is why it never really took off.

 

Is that the standard CD release of "The Immaculate Collection" or a special version?

 

I'd agree, the Roger Waters is a remarkable mix, as is Pulse from Pink Floyd.Some Halluciogen stuff can do your head in too.

 

Pulse is a very good example, but then are you after huge/stage an image or music? tuff one?

 

Why Tone, are they mutually exclusive?

 

AK so far, I'd say that 2 out of 76 systems I've listened to this year have managed then yes.
Merlin will be along in a minute to discuss using cables as hf tone controls and that *Humans* differenicate more of a difference for HF than lower frequencies.
Interestingly both of the systems that managed it were NOT using Upsampling of any discription. Co-incedence? (they were big s/stages), but not the sort the 192khz brigade can generate. They can preform the ability of giving you a 12 foot high Ronnie dio (9 foot taller than real life!) & a 20 foot wide Mr Clapped out, with not much going on in between other than a double decker driving through your living room.
Upsampling has the effect of fleshing out the sound, rather than putting some drive into in, granted it can be a lot less digital sounding too.
This also can be achieved by using various blends of metallic components in making signal transmission devices, *generally* this gives a more open and detailed sound, with the precieved effect of expansiveness and depth of stage, still with that great first principle 'For ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction' you tend to 'rob peter to pay paul' something got to give in order for this to arrive at that opening up of the sound stage, usually the body/texture/presence & drive of the sound.
Do also remember a lot of the 'effects' are mastered on the disc, hence why some sound more Wow than others.
Nothing cast in stone, however we've arrived at this juncture at more than one occation, do all roads point west? No, but the vast majority seem too. Wm

 

I see, I suppose it comes down to listener perception and how extreme you assume each parameter to be, I have a large soundstage, and also get foot tappin sound, I assume this must be the compromise you are reffering to, what seems well balanced to me, may not be what you mean, my large soundstage, must not be the same largeneess to which you are reffering and consequently, the foot tappin sound, not as musical as youi mena, surely there is a compromise point that gives you most of both.

It prolly comes down to my inabillity to describe what I hear, I know what I like, and thats all that matters to me, but I take your point, maybe thos systems that are more musical, i passed up as they didn't have the imaging I was looking for, and vice versa with regard to stage, at the moment I have enough of both to make me smile.

We'll find out soon no doubt.

 

Hi Rewster,

was it from the Beyond Skin album?

I believe the second track on that one has some watery effects that should be swirling around behind you in a properly set up system.

 

Ak,
Preception is key here, if it feels right for you, then it is, regardless of how others percieve it to be, As I've posted, nothing is absolute, things can have a habbit of proving me wrong!!! and I'm sure they are systems that can do this to greater degree, I just need to here em'
What is right?,this will be debated until the dawn of time? I honestly dunno, though I do personaly lean towards a more tighter focussed and propulsive sound which I'm sure a lot of people will dislike. For me, its my perception of *right* and I can't get enough of it!!!.
I will stick me neck out on this one point, for true 'Full vision' sound staging Dual mono/Blox are essential in creating this effect.
Invisable speakers and expansive staging, is difficult but certainly by no means impossible to achive.

 

Some interesting responses already,

On several albums I listened to today, having tried some bits 'n' bobs last night that I'd been meaning to, the stage was noticeably bigger, at it's most exciting the sound was around 6 feet either side of the outer edge of the 'speaker cabinets, which are themselves around 6 feet apart. Having heard this at 3am this morning I assumed I'd become a bit spaced out, and should hit the hay! However,in the cold light of day, L/R and depth directions were just as good, this gave the impression of music coming from a position beyond the wall boundaries, which I've experienced before, but not on such a wide range of material. Nothing seems to have been lost in the prat department, bass was tidy, and images are as solid as was the case before.

I've got the Madonna album mentioned here, (teen of the 80's revealed!) and yes the Vogue track is similarly exciting to listen to. I haven't noted the water behind thing going on, though it is spread uncannily wide on the 'sound picture' and does seem to reflect if I leave the curtains open! 'Properly' set up might not be possible in my domestic environment, assuming there is such a thing as properly set up, and who can tell us what that is!

 

WM I wasn't suggesting I had the best of both, from your perspective it might be pants, just that I have what I perceive I believe to be a good balance of both, again in this mad obscesion, it boils down to personal taste.

I am also open to any suggestions, and remain open minded, which I think is essential if we are to get the best for our money.

 

I do agree with onew of the points made that the invisible speaker is a desireable thing, when all is going well I shut m yeyes and try to point at where the instruments are sited, which for me makes it easier than looking at blank areas of space, in this way you notice just how unobtrusive your speakers can be, or conversly how rooted to the cones the sound is when things are off song.

 

Ak,

Neither was I sir, I wasn't making any judgements either, my point was, its all things to all people, we all percieve things in our own way, mine is rather polarised, however I do respect the aspects and lengths other people have gone to, in order to obtain their chosen path, after all the only person that it should matter to it the individual who constructed it, for in essence its for 'Their ears only'.
I very much doubt pants would be an apt word sir, I will say at this juncture one person commented on my lack of bass a couple of weeks back!!( lack of really low extension).
Life is too short for fretting these days, me and my (partialy bass lite system) are happily groovin' into old age at warp 11 grinning all the way to happless intergartion with the 7th dimension

 

OMG,
I've just noticed I've slipped into comedy spelling mode (yeyes?!), influenced by 'the other blues brother' and ' analogue kid' or was it the beginning of a crate of GMD, which seems to be slipping down rather splendidly this evening.