I don't like Bryston 4BST as much

After living with the ATC SCM12 with a Sugden A21a integrated amp for over 6 months, recently I decided to buy a pre and power amp to tighten the bass a bit. The midrange of the Sugden is superb, it has a very organic feel to it. However, the bass control of the Sugden is just not up to it. I once listened to a Musical Fidelity A308 integrated amp with the SCM12, I really enjoyed the deep and controlled bass, although the midrange is not a patch like the Sugden.

I ventured into the valve territory again. Got myself a Croft Vitale pre amp and a Quad 77 power amp. The Quad is an unsung hero. It is warm and has got plenty of power for the SCM12. I really like it. Then after reading so much about the Bryston 4B power amp, I ended up buying one 2 weeks ago just to see what this legendary amp is like. Unfortunately I don't like it as much as the Quad power amp. The Bryston is very lean, warmth is definitely lacking. The bass is tight but it is never as deep as the Musical Fidelity A308 int amp. In fact I am quite disappointed with its sound. I thought the Bryston may need some warming up after it had sat in the seller's house for a few months. However, its sound hasn't improved after two weeks of continuous use.

I reconnected the SCM12 to the Quad power amp today. The nice warm midrange is back and I am enjoying music again.

Hi fi is a funny thing, isn't it?

Regards
Hon

 

A strange world indeed.

I've been auditioning some very serious gear of late, my aim being to find a system to last for a long while and forget all this audiophoolery. I was planning on going down the valve amp route, but my plans have been somewhat modified in light of a surprising development.

I decided to listen to a Quad system ~ CDP-2 direct into a 909 driving 12Ls (maybe a quarter of the system price I had envisaged) and, hey, guess what? I loved it. It just seemed to gel as a system and was the most musical system I've heard for a long, long time. I'm going to audition the system in my room and, if all OK, then I'll go for it and spend the savings on music.

Incidentally, I've never rated Bryston. The models I've heard have always been too forward, a little brittle even. For my tastes at least. The 20 year guarantee is a great feature though!

What are you using as a front end these days?

 

I listened to a Mark 1 Quad 606 when I had a pair of passive ATC SCM20 a few years ago. I never like the 606, it had a fat boomy sound. However, Quad may have changed the sound of the 707/909 over the years since many people rate them highly.

I have been using a Meridian 507 CD player since Dec last year. Before that, I had a Naim CD5/Flatcap 2 with a pair of ATC Active 10 and CA2 pre amp. I didn't like the sound of the Naim CD5 with the ATC. The CD5 was flat, lifeless and 2 dimensional. In my opinion, it is more suited to a Naim 5 series system which I had before the ATC. It was a chap called Andy who came to buy my ATC Active 10 who inspired me to venture into different territories of hi fi. He brought a DIY valve pre amp and his CD player with a Frankinstein enhancer. Even though there was a hum from the pre amp, his CD player and pre amp really brought life to the ATC Active 10.

Hon

 

Hi (fi) enthusiast,

I have both Bryston 4BST and Quad amplifiers as well as ATC 'speakers. Your observations are correct, 4B may well be good in other set-ups but in your case it's 20 years' warranty of torture. I have nothing to add really.
O no, maybe one more thing. One quy on another forum once said that ST Bryston's bass is "tight as a nun's c..t". It certainly is with ATC. Not that I knew many nuns though. :JPS:

 

So you have similar opinion about the Bryston 4BST with ATC speakers. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Hon

 

I find Byrston's power/dynamic, but dry and thin (alas naim) however paired correctly they do make good music.

 

There's lots and lots of poorly designed 'speakers with awfully loose bass where Bryston can be used to a good effect, no doubt about that. The question is - what really happens when we are trying to cure one deficiency with the help of another. Five from five is never zero in hi-fi.

 

Neat Ultimatium series springs to mind here

 

Heard them at Heathrow Hi fi Show briefly only in a crowded room, sounded lean to me.
Are they that bad? I've read some rave reviews.

 

No they're petty fair, just need some serious tighening in the bottom end, but then its Isobarik, so its limited from the start.

 

OK, then Bryston should help I guess. I've heard that Neat used to voice theirs 'speakers using the Exposure gear, at least with their older models. And they never measured them. These guys must have had seriously good ears. Sorry for the off-topic.

 

Some would say: there are lots and lots of speakers out there with insufficient baffle step compensation in the crossover and too much treble. These will sound very lean with a neutral amplifier like the Bryston. Of course you could try to fix this with a warm sounding amplifier. But (as you note), trying to cure one inaccuracy with another is rarely ideal.

 

Depending on your budget, you might try looking at something like a BAT VK-60 tube amp. Great midrange and, if your speakers are not *real* power-hungry, lots and lots of bass. If you need more bass, maybe move up to VK-120 or (my bet for best non-tube amp), a Jeff Rowland amp. Pricey, but worth it. All depends on your budget.

Plus there's tons of other great tube amps out there: VAC, Cary Audio, McIntosh, Audio Research, Blue Circle, Audio Note, Conrad Johnson, Nagra, Mesa, Bel Canto, etc.

Plenty to try. Also, you might contact Bob at http://www.fatwyre.com and get a test set of cables (interconnects, AC, and speaker) to see what these do to your sound. In my experience they are just like any other component when it comes to getting the sound *you* want.

Cheers!

Shawn Harvey
[email protected]

 

Sure there are. Speakers are designed to look arty first, so tall thin floorstanders are in. And placing the drivers along the centre line means you only have to make 1 baffle versus 2, saving a couple of yen. Narrow baffles give heavy side reflections of the walls too..

Speakers could be made so baffle step compensation is unneccesary by a clustered offset layout. This also gives the end user a choice of 4 response choices just by turning it - useful for room friendliness. They would look like 70s studio monitors though..

 

The 606 went through a number of minor modes, a big revision to mkII. The 707 took this further with a different transformer [?..might have been the 606mkII] Again with a number of revisions. The 909 is different again on the plus side as compared to my 707.

The difference betweeen a mk1 606 and the 909 is very large. The 606 was never a dynamic amp and was for me a bit muddled, all these issues have been addressed so the 909 is a very satisfying amp. They 77 amps don't use the current dumping idea...I did know what they did but my brain is not working.....!

 

Personally I find 4BST/ATC20 quite a satisfactory combination. As John Atkinson once pointed out people's preferred volume levels may influence their perception of equipment.

 

Bryston amps are totally neutral - I would look for an aberration elsewhere

 

This is interesting so Nick, do you really rate chord amps?, how do they compare in your field of vision to the Brystons?, (Having had the 14bst & 1200E (both mine) side by side in 4 systems, I'm really curious? Plinus is ok, Perruex is better (imho) Gamat is good at its 2 trick pony, else where its lacking.
Do you not feel the Bryston is a leaner & dryier sound then? & how does it differ from the bigger chords in your view

 

I used to own a chord 1000b. I found the bryston 4bst - compared with the chord 1200e

a) much cheaper
b) more dynamic
c) better bass

but on the downside

a) slightly less open
b) a tiny bit less detailed

I found it leaner due to the extra control but not dryer. however if you used the 14bst (which is actually the same as the 14b sst and different to the other st models, same as the 6b st is also the same as the 6b sst, bar the badge) then yes it is leaner and dryer. I prefer the st range.

Plinius seemed ok. Worth trying out. Gamut sounded very sweet and detailed but perhaps not that dynamic or grippy.

The brinkmann integrated is quite impressive for under £2k. I was a bit surprised at its performance.

 

There's no such beast ....unless it was a typo and you ment to say tonally neutral. Every amp ever made will imparts its character to the music signal. Every amp has resistance and capacitance some wher within it, which will interact with the signal its passing.