I want to pick some valveites brains

I went round the Manchester show yesterday becoming increasingly convinced that for the sort of music I listen to most often valves is the only way forward. I was particularly taken by Audio Notes room and one that was demonstrating Tube Techonology. They were making the sort of noise I dream about. The AN one did run out of steam on Firebird at the end, but in a Beethoven Piano Trio, it was one of the realest sounds I've ever heard, Perlman could have been sat in front of me.
So I gets to thinking, I don't want to sell the Meadowlarks, they're reasonably efficient, 89db and mostly an 8ohm load, but if I were to sell the Naims, I'd probably get about £400, one or two other little bits I could perhaps make £500, would that get me anything pre-loved I guess that would drive my speakers and give me that palpably chewey valve sound. Most of my music is on LP, so a phono stage would be good, if that was the case I'd probably spend up to about £600, otherwise £500 and a phono stage. The other thing is do these amps have tape loops? I do still use my cassette deck, I'm not sure I'm ready to get rid of it yet.
Is this possible or am I living in fantasy land? I know what Mrs Summit would say. Any links to articles and products would be gratefully welcomed.
Thanks lads

 

For that sort of money you might be able to pick up a Radford ST15, but you'd need a pre with it... And the measly 15w on offer would more than drive the Meadowlarks!
Otherwise you've only got World Audio, Icon or Lim's (!) offerings..
You may also find some Audio Innovations, or even Beard stuff for that sort of price..
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I won't be doing Lim's offerings, had a quick look on the website. Good gracious he's very angry isn't he!
I was hoping to get something second hand, I don't fancy building a WAD

 

Hi Richard,

There are a few choices you can go for the money. Audio Innovations stuff can be quite plentiful. A Series 500 can be had for less than the money you want to spend. This includes a phono stage and can be improved with a Border Patrol power supply. This rated at 25 watts per channel.

Also look out for Croft pre and power amps. These can look home made but offer very good sound quality.

SCIDB

 

I've seen an Icon that would be a straight swap for my Naims. An MC34. Looks rather nice........ Anyone heard one though?

 

Hi.

A few suggestions:

from the emporium:
CONRAD JOHNSON PV6 pre with phono 400 (usually a decent phono stage on CJ stuff)
WORLD AUDIO kt88 amp excellent 475 (this must be a WAD kit that someone has already made up).
COPLAND CTA401 integrated valve amp with phono 30 watts 800
www.emporiumhifi.co.uk


RetroReproductions have a 25w p/ch Audio Innovations 500 series integrated amp with phono. Sweet sound, perhaps not enough watts.

http://www.retroreproduction.com/used-price-list.pdf


there is also a load of valve stuff at 'the trading station' but I cant find the website

Your biggest problem it seems to me is that you want - 1) a decent phono stage 2) a line stage 3) a powerful valve amp - all for the money that each might cost on their own.

Of those I've mentioned the CJ pre and WAD amp look most promising IMO

 

Icon are ok.

Basically, just Like Affordable Valve company, the are a far eastern valve make that is distributed in the UK under another name.

The Icon valve amps that I've seen are all hard wired, which is a rare feat for the price. Reasonable VFM, but I dont think they will have a phono.

 

If you want a decent valve integrated for that price I'd say you were best looking at the Chinese offerings to be honest. In my experience there is absolutely nothing wrong with them either.

Look at Cayin... I had a A-88T and it sounded great.. although not my cup of tea in the end as I went for active studio monitors hehe...

I have a Ming Da pre-amp. Ming Da are the people who 'really' make Icon Audio stuff and although the pre-amp I have is a higher model than any offered by Icon, it is an absolute giant killer. It cost me about £280 inc postage and vat but it is on the level of a £800-£1k pre-amp from anyone else new.

Look on www.cattylink.com The Melody SP3 looks nice as well as the Ming Da MC84. If you do choose to buy anything there give me a PM as I have a very good relationship with them.

Good luck hunting!

 

I'm getting the feeling I want it all for peanuts! Some of the far eastern products look really good. I'd probably be able to splash out another £100 for a phono stage, so the Icon at £425 plus a phono stage looks interesting. The Audio Innovations also looks good, the others are out of my price range, so the itch would have to wait to be scratched!
I think I'd rather buy from a dealer here and have some sort of back up. I don't fancy the option of buying from Hong Kong, and paying all the customs gubbins, and then a faff if it breaks down.
I'll look for the trading station

 

HI Richard,

http://www.hifitradingstation.com/


SCIDB

 

The Audio Innovations S800 power amp at the trading station is a nice amp. They look gorgeous in operation too, the perspex on top reflects the glow of the valves.

Wouldnt leave much money for the pre/phono stage though.

 

I actually think I might have a go at the Icon. It's an MC34 if that means anything to anyone, and is mint. It's also the same as I would be able to sell the Naims for. Then I guess the little Nad phono stage as a starter, and save up for something more prosaic. Unless anyone has any more suggestions

 

With valve amps (all IMO) a lot of the sound comes from the type of valve used, and in what configuration.

From memory the MC34 uses EL34's. These are cheap and plentiful - sound quite robust and generous. If you're mad keen on treble, you might find them slightly rolled off.

If you buy the Icon used, you should lose very little if you decide to move on later.

The WAD mentioned earlier uses KT88's (audio research's favourites) which gives more power. Not a bad thing with 89db efficiency.

Audio Innovations amps are famous for a great clear sound, and can be bridged as power amps to double the power, or have power supply modifications.

If you're looking for something reasonably reliable thats a cheap way into valves, a second hand Icon isnt a bad bet at all, my only real reservation being its power for your speakers.

Chris

 

Hi Richard,

Here is the site for Icon.

http://www.iconaudio.co.uk/index.htm

I think the MC34 is the now called the Stero 40.

You could look at Graham Slee for a phono stage.

http://www.gspaudio.co.uk/preamps/analogue_audio_products.htm

SCIDB

 

Meadowlark say the minimum for their speakers is 10W. I don't think they're the worlds hardest drive, the impedance is around 8ohms I believe. Isaac might help me out here. There's a review on t'internet where they use some Castle speakers with it, and that was fine, no problem with it driving it, the specs are very similair to mine on those speakers.
Ho hum just got to sell the Naims now

 

I cant resist a bit of valve porn, I think the Audio Innovations power amps of the early nineties were design classics. I still hanker after one just because I couldnt afford it when they came out.

Isnt it gorgeous?

 

Indeed. Trouble is they're going to have to go into a cabinet, a very big one that's open at the back, and they'll have a good 18-20 inches clearance above, but with wife wanting child and a spaniel whose nose goes where it shouldn't it will be safer for all concerned. I'd love to watch them glow in the dark.
This is what I'm fancying:

 

Hmm, I tried that once...This is the voice of experience calling:
Valve amps do not go into cabinets. They need open space around them. I had a Graaf 5050 power amp and put it into a cabinet. As a result it overheated and boy could you hear how horrible it sounded when that happened.

They have to go out in the open - so if there dogs and kids about then make sure its high up and has a cage.

Giving up the Graaf was the biggest hifi let down I've had. I don't think I have recovered.

Anyway, perhaps there are solid state amps that ould give the sound you want - maybe Sugden or Lavardin?

 

Lord - its got a safety cage, why not have it in the open?

 

The compromise is my toys have to be kept tidied away. She lets me have them so long as they look alright. They will move out eventually as I am building myself a rack, but for know they will be in the cupboard. The rack will be wood and glass, but it's a while away yet!