Its no wonder the trains are still virgins - they never come

Read what you want into the thread title

Anyway I was in Stoke today and both trains were late. I've got ot make this journey 5 times a week as well as I am doing a part time course in Stoke this month.

So I am paying £40 a week for trains which arrive late. No doubt they will all be canceled once the leaves hit the tracks.

I don't understand how the Spannish can run a really good 130mph train service yet the Brits who have a lot of more money can only manage a late 80mph one. Yes these new trains can do 125mph in theory but they only do that speed on very limited parts of the track.

At least the trains are faster than the crappy local things however

 

it's not the trains it's the infrastructure - woeful underinvestment thanks to privatisation and profit taking are at the root of the uk's lousy public transport network. that and the fact that after all the high profile rail disasters in the past few years the rail operators are being super careful.

 

Its still very poor though, when I got to Manchester Pic this morning they were anouncing the London train had been canceled (which didn't affect me as I get the Birmingham New Street train). One the way back I needed to get the London train which was 20 minutes late, so I ended up getting the Bournmouth train which was 12 minutes late.

So thats three late/canceled trains I knew of today. I really thought we have moved on from this and it was a thing of the past but it seems not.

 

Apologies to all our Spanish members of behalf of AT!

Further to Julians comments you've also got to remember that we dont want to pay for anything. We could re-nationalise the train service again, but how many people would be happy paying for the funding really needed, people use to moan at nationalised industry being a drain, now they moan about privatised industry being crap. You pay for what you get Im afraid.

 

The problem was privatisation per se, it was the completely f*cked up way in which it was done. The Japs privatised their railways and they're amongst the best in the world. They used a rather different model to the UK one.

Michael.

 

AT - I owe you a beer for that thread title - too damn right. Almost every Virmin Toyager train I have to get is late and/or woefully overcrowded, usually with broken toilets as well. If I wasn't saddled with the physical inability to drive, I'd buy a car - even with the 33% discount on rail fares thanks to a disabled railcard, the service is still appalling.

 

So far the Birmingham New Street Voyagers have been on time, but I have another 38 outward journeys to make on that service.

About half the Pendolinos I have been on in my life have ever been canceled or were late.

The buses have also been f**ked up with the privatisation as well, basicialy Stagecoach, Ariva and Firstbus now control most the UK bus market. Virtualy everywhere I have been North West of Manchester has been stagecoach buses, they are wiping out all the small firms.

PS Dom I had to be very careful that I spelt the last word right otherwise I might have been banned

 

I haven't used a train for ages, but the idea that you can buy any amount of tickets then hop on a train and no one cares how full it is is crazy...

 

And guess what the governments wonderful solution to over crowding is? Now anybody with common sense given the need to reduce car traffic would say increase train capacity.

But oh no that means too much investment for Labour, their solution? Increase ticket prices by 1/3. Now surely they must realise that will mean more car journeys?

PS On most the intercity services I have never found crowding to be too much of a problem, once a Pendo was canceled so we had to get the next one, that was stupidly over crowded and it was raining so it had to divert the the Midlands. It ended up taking 4 hours to get to London, it should have taken 2 hours and 2 minutes.

Oh also the journey times are nothing like as good as what Virgin claim, I have yet to see a train that leaves Manchester and gets to London in 2 hours and 6 minutes. Is this the 3:00am train or somthing? Or is that train that runs on Pendays?

 

makes me almost glad of my simple lifestyle - just driving to work through the countryside...

I'd hate to use public transport on a daily basis, but saying that - it's still been through country roads etc...

 

My local buses are great, they are about every 1-2 minutes, the weekly pass costs £8.50 which I can use over much of Greater Manchester and it takes about 30 minutes from leaving house to get into the city centre.

If I had to drive to the city centre it would be hell, the traffic, the difficulties of parking etc. Most my neighbours get the bus despite having cars.

In the countryside its a totaly different story though, public transport is much more expensive, its not as frequent and driving is not as stressfull.

I don't think I would want to drive to Stoke every morning anyway.

 

No one is prepared to invest the money required to get the rail network and signals upgrade, in parts we're still using Victorian signal systems (which is very worring) which keep breaking down thus causing delays and cancelation.

One shocking FACT on the Exeter to Padington line, just outside Exeter St Davids, in the Cowley area it runs next to the river Exe, a few years ago when we had the storms, the river washed away the bank under the line. But the government refused to build a bridge or put in ANY flood defences, all they did was build the bank up again, so guess what's going to happen with the next big storm. (I have the newspaper artical as well if anyone is in question over this).

If this is the approach they take to maintaining the UK's rail network I'm totally surprised its running at all.

Its in a shocking state, IMHO 99% blame lies with the money grabbing, sleeze ridden Torry party of the day (but term lepard and spots does spring to mind), but Labour are not exactly putting much resource into doing anything about this.

Ya that makes me laugh to, all the Local governments are supposed to Hightlight train use and encorrange people to use it, then they go and slap 1/3 price rise on it, ya like that'll work!

Gone to hell in a handbasket!

 

It could work so well though, I mean Manchester to London in 1 and a half hours that would be amazing. We have the trains we just don't have the tracks as pointed out.

I don't think we will ever see the planned 2008/2009 140MPH west coast service.

 

The public transportation system could work very well and from the "older" generation that I talk to (I'm sure there is a lot of nostalgia attached to their opinions but) it used to be a lot better than it is now, for example Exeter DID have a tram network, also had better train network (stations at Exminster, Sidmouth, etc).
But governments don't give a flying f**k about public transport, they still think the car is king and until they attitude changes NOTHING will be done about it.

Just did a quick search on the BBC News site and turned up this,

Now why am I NOT surprised, but they'll push through a 4 lane M25 expansion, or put in an airport, but spend money on a railway, oh no we can't do that. ass holes

 

Me and one of my uncles was having this conversation the other day and we saying how were taking massive leep forwards with things like the internet but taking 10 steps back with transport.

Although the buses are every 1-2 minutes they are always crowded and it takes 30 minutes to get 4 miles down the road to the city centre. In the old days there were trains but Dr Beeching closed my local station.

 

It always puzzles me that running the SAME trains at the SAME times on the SAME routes one day after another should be so difficult.

 

Yada yada yada, how about doubling ticket prices in order to double investment? then there'd be some serious complaining, how about re-nationalising industry again, it'd only cost an extra 10p per pound on your tax. Dont think so. As a nation we're not happy paying for things. And, I well-remember how ineptly run many nationalised companies were, 3 men for one job, one does the job, one watches him doing that job and the third is a union rep. Alot of truth in that, and round these parts where we had BL, ROF, Leyland trucks etc you still here that been said on a weekly basis.

 

So how can the French or Spannish do it then? I saw lets encourage all the car drivers and then deal with it in 2009 when the entire country gets stuck in a traffic jam.

The train companies are making profit so at the moment its the fat cats which are getting the money.

 

Remember that not all of us have a choice as to whether we can use cars as transport. Am I right in saying that something like 18% of the country (ie, disabled/under 17/too old to drive) rely on public transport? Seems like enough of a percentage to put some effort into improving it.

The old days WERE better btw - tracks were repaired at night instead of on Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays (surely that would cost JUST as much in labour as it does at night, without having to fork out on bus replacement services?). Also, far more stations, more rolling stock, and NO computers. Funny how things ran better without them eh?

As for current rolling stock, can someone explain to me why 1976-era InterCity125 trains are more comfortable and with more room than a Vermin Toyager/Penisdildo or Worst Adalante?

Also - why is there no upper limit for overcrowding on normal trains, yet animal trains have overcrowding limits? (And no, the "lack of choice" for the animals is a cop out excuse - *I* don't get a choice - *I* have to use trains too)

And finally - why is kerosene/aviation fuel tax-free for the airline industry, yet diesel for trains is taxed?

 

Indeed Dom, for people like yourself public transport is essential and you do deserve better and you shouldnt have to pay for it. I dont know the answer though, its under-funded and over-used, however I still maintain people wont pay for it.

AT, Spain and France dont have anything like the infrastructure the UK has, escape the major northern cities and you'll find a totally different story, towns and villages are remote and most dont have a regular train service. Im planning our away game to Perpigeon (scuse the spelling) next season and its quicker to get a flight to Barcelona then hire a car and drive there coz theres bugger all else when it comes down to it.

You'll aslo find that the French have a much more Social government that invests heavily in the social sector. It does come at a price to the tax payer though. Its swings and roundabouts. The biggest problem we have IMO, is that there alot more taking than giving and alot isnt justified.