Jaw dropping enhancements in sound quality

But what is 'bad sound'? All you have is the recording and the question 'do I want to play it?'.

Paul

 

It's sad when such a good bunch of musicians are screwed up by the mastering engineer (or should I say the exec's working for the record company)

 

A hard question to answer since it is obviously a subjective thing when it comes to music. But I would say generally the things that annoy me are lack of dynamic contrast, and especially the distortion heavy compression and clipping adds. Also unnatural tonality, like being really rolled off, or having one frequency range stick out like a sore thumb.

I agree a better system can improve matters by revealing what dynamics there are, but it can still sound very wearing and as though there is some sort of background noise going on. When it has that effect on me I don't want to listen for long.

 

Absolutely. And if the recording in question is a CD transfer of noisy and crackly 1930's 78rpm discs of Rachmaninov playing his own works the answer is undoubtedly 'Yes'.

Very "bad quality" recording but also immensly enjoyable to listen to

Michael.

 

I think that's not the 'bad quality' that is this 'bad quality'. OTOH there is very little 'dynamic contrast' on a 78....

Paul

 

So how do these super fi systems cope with hot mastered digitally clipped cd's then?
But you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear and if your system does -it's far from any concept of 'neutral' I've ever come across-'ambivalent' would better describe a system like that!.
The eq applied to most pop recordings is compensating for the restricted freq response of average compact system/stereo speakers.
In the real world big monitors are mainly for track laying and main mix will be done for the dreaded Yammy's or equivalents.
These freq lifts are something I can live with as are some ropey sounding cd's-the event and performance more than compensating but there are plenty of real stinkers out there-my speakers effectively monitor what's on disc(inc the sound quality compromises/mastering mistakes etc)they do not give a rosey view of everything.So when I record my sons band and hear something amiss in the mix it's not a recording mistake it's a fault elsewhere in my system being exposed?-sorry does not compute

 

You just keep the volume setting down. With real resolution, you still get the enjoyment from the music even at very low levels. Indeed if the response has been tailored as you say for bandwidth limited playback equipment, the Fletcher Munson curve ensures it balances nicely at lower levels on really good kit. If you still want to crank it up you can, the digital clipping is far less obtrusive than in most so called neutral systems as it's buried in the wealth of musical and spatial information being recovered from the recording. Contrary to popular belief, mastering engineers do not deliberately make recordings that sound ghastly.

I agree, but the sows ear is usually quite pleasent when viewed in isolation through a really revealing system. This is where the confusion exists for me - systems that are truly revealing and neutral rarely sound like most people's perception of such. They sound smoother and faster at the same time, with greater tonal and dynamic contrast.

I like Tannoys, but that tweeter is coloured. A recording that accentuates that colouration inherent in your speaker might well seem like a poor recording to you - but where does the fault really lie?

Cooky, really great speakers don't give a rosey view either, but neither do they ruthlessly rip recordings to bits. It's difficult to put into words. Maybe some people listen to the sound of their system primarily. I would say the better your system, the less you are aware of it's presence between you and the music.

 

Which one are you referring to? They went from pepperpot to tulip waveguide in the 80/90s.

 

SM,
All speakers a coloured, as you say yourself they are the most compromised part of the audio chain.
Digital distortion is very nasty and objectional and regardless of what system I'm using either Westlakes, ATC's or Genelecs in a professional capacity or 215's for leisure, to my ears it is such a distraction as to spoil an otherwise good sound and has f*** all to do with the colourations in a tulip HF driver as it is common and equally intrusive on all the above systems.
Mastering engineers do not deliberately destroy recordings that's true but record company producer/wankers force them to.
95% of my cd's sound truly awesome and involving-a credit to the engineers for capturing things so well-maybe I've got a more attuned pair of ears than you and can identify the duff ones.
(I know it can upset the ladies so is probably right up my street but what is your current speaker set up SM?

 

Cooky,

I used to use the Tact RCS and could literally watch digital distortion flagged up as I listened. I therefore know which discs I own suffer badly, and which are free. My own take is that the signature hard edge to the sound that becomes intrusive at high levels is less of an issue rather than more of an issue with increasing resolution.

My experience of most Tannoys suggests as you push them, they harden up (Westminster excepted I should add) An insidious distortion that becomes increasingly audible with greater levels will not dovetail well with that IMHO.

Of course it's possible you have fabulous ears - just as it's possible you are listening to the sound in a critical fashion and not to the musical content.

My current speakers are an active JBL/TAD three way hybrid - a modern take of the classic Augsberger/Westlake large scale monitors of the past 30 years.

 

I've also been told my legs aren't bad either

 

A CD doesn't have to light the clipping indicators to have distortion from excessive compression and limiting. I'm sorry but it can be very nasty sounding in some recordings no matter what system you have.

 

To level the playing field we need to name and shame. So CDs that suffer digital distortion/unreasonable compression/other offensiveness?

The Red Hot Chilli Peppers come up in this context, I have access to 'By the Way' but it doesn't sound that offensive. OTOH I've no urge to play it.

So nominate the crap. New thread if necessary...

Paul

 

How do you know Simon if I might ask? Have you listened to all of these systems? I'm talking of digital clipping specifically. That is to my ears the real cause of the harshness some attribute to digital replay. It doesn't bother me when I hear really great music on really great systems. It's interesting that both you and Cooky operate pseudo pro listening setups and both find this clipping intrusive. I wouldn't really think of the Behringer as being a high resolution device to be honest with you - that's not a dig - just my opinion based on using similar devices.

 

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/imperfect-sound-forever.htm

Above article mentions specific tracks. Its long though. Of course the author has a low resolution system, else all his tunes would sound sublime.

 

Iggy and the Stooges, Raw Power-remastered version.

Digital distortion or not, turn it up and it's like like getting drilled in the head...... And before anyone laughs, the previous CD and some 70s vinyl pressings aren't like that.

 

There's something wrong with your setup, the remastered Raw Power sounds fantastic, much better than the original (which is still one of my favourite records, despite that).

-- Ian

 

There must be because I thought it sounded rubbish.

 

Which brings me back to my original question - how much do you have to spend to have one of those "really great systems" - you seem to suggest - quite a lot - the speakers you mention cost upwards of £25K.

Also it doesn't seem to make sense to me that mastering engineers would only cater to those with such expensive systems - shouldn't most music sound good without having to spend tens of thousands on "high resolution" kit?

 

Well, you're the only person I've come across who thinks that!

FWIW I use Tannoys, and just about everything I play through them sounds pretty splendid, but the remastered Raw Power is something I've played through quite a few different setups over the last few years and there's been nowt wrong with it on any of them.

-- Ian