Just a few words about the Swings

I'm new here

By merely Googeling for something completely different things, I suddently saw a post on this to me unknown and interesting forum, by anubisgrau https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?t=13956&page=24 and further https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?t=13956&page=25

I know personally anubisgrau as he lately became a visitor in my home just by coincidence. We pumped into each other in a completely different forum where I have quite some contributions. Value = let others judge. :zzzz:

In the thread I refer to, there are some general discussions about horn speakers pro and cons, and thats likely why I suddently appeared there.

Anu has been in a search for a good high efficient horn speaker for some while and until now he did not yet buy any.
I'm only guessing, but likely because he heard the Swings in my place. Latest last night where my new CrazyA amp has replaced a long row at SS and SET amps over 35 years.
Most people searching for the perfect horn speaker normally stop their search having heard those Swings. Sorry can't help it. Not my fault.

I did not show up here to rave about them, but rather to invite anyone who cannot beleive a horn speaker can be a SOTA product and sign for an efficiency of 115/db/w/m to come and have a listen.
And to those who have an opinion about them, not having heard them, could have a chance to be more objective. So please guys...you have to go to either The Nederland or to Serbia to make that happen.

The Swings is a completely new approach to handle horns, horn compression drivers, cabinets and in particlar filtering not seen or heard elsewhere on this planet. They are also quite a newcommer on the market, maybe that's why only a few set's are running.
The final developments are in it's final phase and a release just around the corner.

Please try to forget about the "horn mark" added to the musical event in your listening rooms as we now them.
These speakers are in a different league and likely anybody would say after having heard them, that this ISN'T a horn speaker at all


The Swings is the answer to manys dreams who either go for one way or the other to achieve perfect sound. High- or low efficient speakers all included.

But anyone is welcome to contact the manufactorer at http://www.bd-design.nl/

So as I said, my post is just an invitation to all those who beleive it is worthwhile to travel far to judge by them self.

Welcome to my world. Have coffee and booze enough too.


Gerner

 

Welcome to the forum Gerner - it was interesting to read about your speakers.

A bold claim you make in your first post. Could you outline just what completely new approaches you use in the Swing? I'm also interested in knowing more about the coaxial compression drive unit - how it works, what affect the relocation of the diaphram has, and what compromises are made by employing that approach? I understand that Romy has been highly critical of the design. This in itself is not a bad sign in my experience.

 

I edited a bit in a typo I made: There were an "is" which should have been an "isn't". Now my sentence maybe can be understood?

Yes I could tell you everything about the Swings, but to be fair to the manufactorer of it: DB-Design I suggest you to address his forum or Bert Doppenberg him self.
You can read a lot about it there. Also about the BMS which has been modified quite some to make it do what it does.

I feel however sure the BD-Design would not tell how it was possible to make this out of the box honker turn into the best horn driver excisting. I think it's regarded as a secret.

http://forum.bd-design.nl/forum.php

Gerner

 

Ooh goody. A secret. So secret you can't tell us? All you can do is tell us they are the best speakers you've ever heard and all the others are useless? Have you met Keith at all?

I don't sadly have the time to plough through another forum trying to filter the useful information from the bullshit - I was kind of hoping you could distill this for us.

 

Hi Gerner and welcome here,
I guess what would be a valuable information here for advanced horn enthusiasts is your opinion on stock BMS driver and what you have actually achieved with it. From what I understood, your thoughts on how bad it is in a stock form actually don't differ to those exposed by many other designers seeking for something new, romy included.

 

No no, it was not my intension to play an arrogant idiot. It was an invitation to come and listen by your self.

I cannot of course not expose to anyone what those secrets might be. I'm not the manufactorer of the speaker.
That's why I suggest anyone who have the curriosity and try to ask the owner of this design, if he will elaborate about it.

What I can tell you about the BMS is not more than you can learn from their homepage.

About the modifications I will not address it. Please understand that.

Least but not at last:

Yes I can tell what I think about my speakers and all other stuff, but it is not my mission or aim to state all other speakers are useless. Did I write that?

Gerner

 

Cao audioholic neighbour...

Yes it is obvious that when I fire off a post like I did, some questions might pup up.

The BMS out of box is useless for me. Totally, I'm telling you. So much for the stock BMS's.

But start playing with them I saw a possibillity to change that completely.
But still BD-Design has to reveil what they want about that. It cannot come from me.

I don't want to be pressious mystery maker here on the forum. I can retreat very easily.

Gerner

 

Welcome Gerner,

No, you didn't say all other speakers were useless. It would be great to be able to hear them - Stereomic is very keen on the old adage 'seeing (hearing in this case) is believing'. Unfortunately he can't or won't happily believe anything else except that the majority of members here are all wrong about everything that isn't absolutely and catergorically proven by science or engineering. He has some beautiful hifi equipment by all accounts and the most remarkable thing is that someone so zealous in his persuit of truth has time to ever listen and enjoy the music. Fortunately when he isn't defending the virtue of gullible members his knowledgeable contributions are beneficial - he just seems to be on a crusade at the moment

(Oh, and he isn't terribly keen on schilling, snake oil, tweaks or 'new' business' either - can't imagine how he has stayed arround a hifi forum for long enough to accumulate so many posts)

I hope I may have the opportunity of hearing a system like yours sometime.

Jim

 

Great post Jim, that about sums it up... :beer:

 

I don't know all you audio guys at all. I am sure you have a serious approach to whatever you are into. Or maybe some don't?

Might be some sniffed a little too much mod'y glue over time....hahaha

Just read my post as a response to Gordans "bringing me into your forum" by his posts showing my system and telling what he heard.
If I didn't pump into that, I would never have addressed it.

So thanks for being welcommed here

And to those who doesn't want to dive deep into another old forum: I really understand you. Phyyy....


Enjoy your music...

gerner

 

Believe me, SM, like many of us, has been there and done that. He speaks from deep experience about audio and has accumulated a great deal of knowledge over the years. He's one of the few people with both the means and the curiosity to investigate audio in a meaningful way. And he also posesses a pair of really excellent ears - whch is uncommmon and what's more he has not shabby at all taste in music.
Life's a bitch like that sometimes.

 

Shame his mouth/fingers are not up to his ears...

 

Loser.

 

Yes he is...

 

Dear Pals

Sorry. By a closer thought I think I can allowe my self to expose those modifications of the BMS has not anything to do with mechanical mod's.
That should leave out any doubt that it should be snake oil, glue or blessings from Gurus that does the trick. It's a purely electrical approach.

I thereby don't say it couldn't improve by applying such meassures. Never tried.

Now some doubts should have been eliminated.

I guess it is not nessecary to tell that they need a horn dedicated for it's special coax 2 driver construction. But that's not my diciplin to deal with such things.

Sorry if I am sturring up some old dust here on this likeable forum. If I do I appologize. It is of pure ignorance then. Havn't studdied the forum yet.

Gerner

 

Deep experience - fine, having means - excellent, good ears - fantastic, curiosity - we all have that, but being pompous and plain bloody rude on a forum with an obsessional preoccupation with having the final say on any criticism - no thankyou!

SM's attitude has annoyed me - and by all accounts rather a great many other forum users too. It comes to something that you are nervous of asking a question or posting a point of view in case SM pops up, which sadly is what someone said to me last night. If this forum is going that way because of one Member i think it's time to flag this up.

 

hi,
Don't worry about it. These enmities follow people across forums and across threads on a single forum. There's nothing you can do about that.
More detail about what is done to the BMC (which is a fairly well-regarded driver in the PA world) would be interesting.

Antonio,
If you could learn not to hit the send button once in a while, life would be a little easier on here I think.

 

Why dont you do as you preach, it will avoid the reactions you dont like...

 

Very few people are genuinely curious IME.
In the many years I've known SM in his various guises on the fora, he has always been a wind-up and he's got to me more than a few times. It can be annoying - and I certainly don't agree with everything he says (I do not believe in valves or magic amps for one thing) - but SM is someone who actually makes me think about audio rather than lapse into the usual audio forum nodding dog syndrome.
I know of only two or three other people who have the ability to challenge the preconceived ideas both of others and themselves in audio in such a way (one of whom -and I'm not talking about Romy - is even more unpopular than SM.

 

Oh, that's all right then. Let's have wind-ups that bully and stop others from enjoying exchanges. Sorry.