Linn - love it /hate it/don't care I'll argue anyway thread!

Should I upgrade or replace my turntable.

I have a Linn Sondek LP12 which I bought from new over 20yrs ago, it has a Basic Plus tonearm, Valhalla circuitry and an Ortofon 2M Blue Cartridge.

The upgrade path seems very expensive, and initially I would look at getting Cirkus Kit installed and then maybe 2nd hand Ittok or Akitio 2, then on top of that a better cartridge. This does not even include a Lingo etc.

So I have been considering selling my existing LP12 an instead adding some funds to get a Rega P7.

What attracts me to the P7 is the simplicity of set up, also power supply included,

I guess if I sold my LP12 at best I could probably get £400 for it. My intentions are to fund £1000 for upgrading or replacing.

How would a P7 compare to my existing LP12 without any upgrades?

 

P7 and oldish LP12 sound quite different.
The Rega is closer to how modern digital sounds IMO (and that's good IMO) but the older LP12s do have a big, warm and bouncy character to the sound. Very good all the same and you can usefully reign that in with careful choice of cartridge - something like a Dynavector DV17 will make it sound altogether cleaner and more faithful.

The benefit from the Lingo and other assorted add-on supplies is tiny.
I'd be inclined to replace the arm with a new Rega RB301 and fit a DV17.
That's about £800.

Ittoks are great but there are lots of shagged ones on the used market, so be careful.

 

£1400 could get you a nice arm and cartridge with a: Lenco, Garrard 301 / 401, Technics 1210 / SP10, or Thorens TD 124. Or an EMT 948 which would be at the top end of your budget and best to mate with an EMT cartridge - which would stretch the budget even more. However, EMT's come with good built in phono amps and they are even simpler to set up than the Rega P7's.

I would take any of these tt's over an LP12 or Rega P7.

 

A cirkus kit and an ittok would really improve your deck massively. For £1000 you will not regret it IMHO. I added a cirkus and ittok to my deck and never looked back.

 

What is it about the LP12 that you feel you have outgrown, or might be missing out on? What about it do you like?

 

What I like is that it often surprises me how great it can sound, and mine is quite a modest LP12 compared to some you see.

What concerns me is the costly upgrade path.
Also , the specialist set up required - not sure if mine is set correctly, then having to deliver and collect from specialist, can all this transportation effect the overall set up when you get it home.

In view of this would I be better off with a Rega P7 or if I can save up for a P9, the piece of mind knowing that I am getting the best out of the deck provided I can place one of these decks on a suitable table.

thanks

 

I would personally keep LP12 why not upgrade the cartridge?. As you have said you like the sound and this might be a better upgrade! You could Join the Linn forum they might have a few ideas and someone might be able to advise you some good upgrade advice. It would be wise to get it set up properly as turntables really do need to be set up properly and maybe take it to a dealer if you dont fancy setting it up yourself.

 

Joining the Linn Forum would be a bit like joining a religious cult. Initially you may feel that you have found a group of kindred spirits. You may even feel a certain amount of peace, calm and joy. You will also find that you're encouraged to believe only the preachings of the cults leader. That you're encouraged to stay locked into the cult and that all other religious groups worship false gods. Questioning the tenets of the faith will bring out a strong reaction from the other members.

The Linn Forum is the last place I'd go for unbiased advice on turntable upgrades.

No, thinking about it, the Linn Forum is the first place I'd go and then I'd do the opposite of whatever they recommended.

 

Actually for a manufacturer forum its very open if you accept that Linn makes the LP12 and it's their forum.

 

Looks like we have no shortage of drama queens here at Zerogain....

Heaven forbid an individual expresses a positive opinion about something that's not currently in fashion or approved by The Membership else they'll be branded as cultish, brain-washed or trying to rule the world.

 

If simplicity is your bag then the Rega decks have a well deserved reputation for zero set up and decent sound. I find then a little thin and anaemic sounding, personally.

The current in vogue deck is the Well Tempered Amadeus, they can be had for decent money 2nd hand and are excellent sounding, simple decks, if a little incongruous visually at first glance. Try and dem one of those if you can, they are honest and engaging deck with the right cart.

If you do like the Linn sound then stick with what you have, a new power supply, Mose/Heed/Armageddon/Lingo are all good investments and give you a genuine undeniable 'improvement'- as in measures more accurately.

After that maybe the Cirkus and a new cart. Once you get beyond these mods you are heading towards new-Linn sound. Which IMHO is quite a different sound and can be achieved for much less with other brands.

 

Indeed, "open to all" is actually not so open. Discussion is a great and wonderful thing but biterrness and old scores are pervading ZG at an ever increasing rate.
Flat Earth is the whipping boy and even Rob is getting in on the act, quite sad to see really.
Still I am happy with what the Flat Earth did for me, it got me involved in listening to music more often. We would do well to remember that the flat earth was a movement that insisted on listening to kit based on the best source you could buy rather than buying off the spec sheet.
I don't subscribe to the valve and Tannoy way of thinking but I don't called them brainwashed sheep at every oppertunity. We need some balance and those with trade interests should be indicated as such.

 

I was part of the beginning of the FE movement. The primary points as stated were:

Trust your ears: Judge a hifi by what it sounds like to you vs what the spec sheet, the salesman, the manufacturer or any other "fish tale" would lead you to believe. You are The Expert in other words.

Judge by comparison using musically valid criteria : some examples of questions to ask have been outlined in another thread as opposed to worrying about bits of sound that can't be compared without access to the original event (master tape or what have you.)

Anything else is someone's interpretation (and either wrong or misleading depending upon their agenda.) It's only a tool for evaluating a hifi where no other seems to exist and not a way of life as some of its detractors would have you believe.

I'm with you Andrew. If others find the above useless, that's perfectly OK with me. If a crappy source and amp into highly resolving loudspeakers turns you on -by all means, you should not change a thing because someone thinks you're wrong. That's point #1 above. But, please extend the same courtesy to the rest of us when we're having a conversation about source first or whatever. If you don't believe in what we're discussing, state it and move on - leave the thread in other words. Do not disrupt the conversation.

 

Balance comes from the opinions of those posting, and no views have been removed from ZG, nor will they be unless clearly against the AUP.

I would positively encourage all views to be expressed as forcefully as posters wish, from whichever side of the particular fence they happen to sit.

Fine words Dave, just a shame it didn't reflect reality.

The Salesman was absolutely key to the whole 80s and 90s FE mis-selling bonanza.

 

Rob,

The FE folks had their share of misguided and greedy individuals as much as any other group. Many of us weren't however and found some of tools extremely useful as well as satisfaction in helping folks find what they were looking for when traditional methods of listening for bass, treble and imaging didn't work.

regards,

dave

 

Rob, what FE miss-selling bonanza? I just dont get it. Just because we bought LP12s instead of Jap DDs in the UK does not make the salesman wrong. The OP asked for upgrade advice on an LP12 and indeed mentioned another FE brand, Rega. Can we keep the petty 'I hate you' sentiments out of it please. I was not and am not brainwashed, I just happen to like what my system does. If others disagree that's fine but DO NOT presume to question my ability to choose what I like.
Just as I would not call someone who bought a valve 300B amp instead of a NAP250 a brainwashed sheep, I would expect the same respect for my opinion.
I have experience of the OPs upgrade choice and did spend £1000 on a Cirkus and Ittok, it was well worthwhile and my opinion is no less valid than those who hate FE.

 

Pfff. I'm tempted to join the Linn forum and start an "I've got an LP12 with this spec on it. I have £x to spend. I want to get the best sound from my system. What shall I buy?" thread.

And we'll see how good the advice is that I get back - possibly by baking off what I think I should spend the money on vs what the Linn Forum thinks I should spend the money on.

Hey, maybe I should extend this to a few other forums such as this one, pfm, wigwam, art of sound and bake-off a selection of recommendations from each forum? This would be as an experiment to see if some forums give better advice than others.

 

How will you know which advice is best unless you try every suggestion?

 

I really have no idea what you mean by this post Lindsay?

 

Wonderful idea, just do it, if you need any help just ask.