Living with panel/electrostat speakers

I was thinking lighthouse, which beams horizontally and cannot be seen from space. Clearly unconventional. Sorry.

The wavelength of 20kHz is about 2.5 inches. The question is how much of a 4 foot tall panel do you hear at once? I think the answer is not much. A column of cones is rather different, you hear them all, so the distance from you to the various cones starts to matter.

The problem I have with current Martin Logan hybrids is that they are repugnant to my eye. Whereas Quads are quite acceptable. YMMV.

Paul

 

I've just reread some of Jim Griffin's White Paper: Design Guidelines for Practical Near Field Line Arrays (the things I do for you guys).

It would seem that the Comb Line Destructive Interferences (treble drop-off, particularly when moving off the vertical axis) applies to line arrays made up of circular drivers but not ribbons.

Thought I'd better mention it.

 

Just to clarify, the Logan panels are made up of a number of horizontal strips, each of which performs the same job as far as I can tell.

As for their appearence, well I find them, particularly the smaller ones, to be the most aestetically pleasing designs on the market bar none, so that just goes to show how different we are. The Quads are just too imposing and clearly hifi for me

 

Graham, seeing as my experience is panels and their ilk a very very limited I couldn't say for certain, but I do have a strange hunch they might work better in my room than dynamic speakers. Why? Because I reckon the larger raidiating surface area would be more efficient at engergising the air in the room or "driving" it, which IMO is what I need, whereas as cone bass speakers seem to concentrate a lot of their radidated energy into smaller area. So I'm reckoning as long as the energy is dispersed around the room more evenly and driving the air more than the floor I should be OK? I mean the thing is, if say a real double bass or timpani drum were actually played in my room, I don't think I'd be complaining about the lack of bass (!!), it wouldn't sound like it would if I sat a couple of rows back in a concert hall due to the wave not being as fully developed but even at close range I would get a better feeling of bass from the real instrument than I currently with my current room and current speaker set-up. I think what I'm after is more coherence rather than a absolutely flat response down to 20Hz - but I won't know if that is so until I try some alternative solutions out.

That sounds like plan, I'd definitely be up for that at some point. :MILD:

Interesting, with the Quad reviews I've read so far, the reviewers don't mention that they're tempted to use subs - but they seem to be from British contributors - either that or folks who tend to gravitate towards Quads are more sensitive to subwoofer integration issues. Whereas with the Odyssey reviewers on Audioreview, quite a few mention that the bass could have slam, even one guy uses a Velodyne and still reckons he doesn't get the bass he wants (his room must be worse than mine) - but the Logan reviewers seem to be American users so I'm assuming much bigger rooms and hence the bass problems.

Have to admit, bone shaking bass ain't really a priority, I can live without that, but I do like to hear all auidible bass produced accurately and feel like the room is being driven when required (like when a cathedral organ is playing).

 

Hiya Henry

I mentioned Dali previously. Ive heard some awesome ribbon hybrids - and Dali are worth checking out if you have a dealer near you...

Have you heard many Ribbon speakers yet? - personally I have prefered the sound of a ribbon to an electrostatic panel when Ive heard both, in fact they are my favorite means of getting treble/mid frequencies! but YMMV of course

Good luck with the experimenting - thats always the best bit!
Chris

 

Oh no it isn't It's 17mm or about 3/4 in

Chris

 

Henry. This guy is highlighting the issue with stats. Whatever he does he won't get the bass he is after as, I suspect he wants that impact that cones provide between 100 and 400hz. Adding a sub will increase scale a bit, but the Odyssies are hardly lacking down below. Simply put, the bass from stats is different, and does not fit with some people's perception of ideal. Quad owners IMO are less likely to worry about a sub, and more likely to purchase aftermarket tweed socks to match their wive's twin set!

Best thing is to get a listen, they really are damned good. I still reckon my Stax Omega11's represent the best stat on the planet though

 

Oooooohhhh yesss. Widor's Toccata. Magic. You get the air from the pipes,the sense of acoustic, the drive of the rhythm. The room throbs to the sound of the pedals

Oi, you, merl. My wife looks very good in a twin set and tweed socks are nice and warm. :Quad:

reg

 

Sorry for my error, 2/3 inch would be better. It doesn't change the reason why a 4 foot radiator might cause problems.

FWIW is that exactly 17mm? At what pressure? Altitude?

Paul

 

Reg,

did you see the 988's at the show with the retro fifties panel covers:chunder:

I guess it's little things like that which define their market, and create the image of plinksters in broges nibbling the ends of their hand carved pipes whilst adjusting their combovers to the wacky beat of those hipster jiveturkies

:band:

 

They remind me of Terry Gilliam old women with big bottoms. Now I've got the image I can't get rid of it...

I think in a pale colour and with a nice piece of wood on top they could be acceptable. I'm not sure about the new models.

Paul

 

Well it's got to page 4 so I suppose I had better post something.

As an owner and user of some Maggies, be they only the smallest 4 foot high ones, I have to say that the thing about the sweet spot and other effects is very minimal. I can easily sit on my sofa, which is infront of the right hand speaker and still get an idea of space and sound coming from between the speakers.

They don't do the disappearing effect that other speakers can do and I would be worried at playing them very loud for very long.

One advantage of the planars is that if you do break them they are easy to fix.

Any way the bottom line is I haven't found any speakers that can compete with the scale, speed and voicing, at a price I'm willing to spend of speakers.

 

FYI:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3053350907&category=14993

 

Cheers Cookie - you must use the search facility on Ebay as often as the rest of us use Google!!

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Hmm, thinking of maybe booking a 989 dem at the Quad dealer which is just around the corner from me this Saturday...

Have to agree with Merlin though, the image banded around by Quad, especially of some of their finishes and if you have a look at the picture in their promotional brochure for the ESL 98x speakers - you'd definitely think they were trying to appeal more to the 45+ age range of consumer!

Chris (Bottleneck) - not thought about ribbons before... Think my experience of ribbons is even less than with electrostats. One or two Lumley Metropolis's and the Perigee's some of us heard at Heathrow are my only experiences of ribbons.

 

Oi Henry - Ian's around Saturday avo (we've got free tickets for the Picture House). Keep me posted re the Quad dem 'cos I'm very interested to tag along and see what they're like

 

On the basis of no evidence whatsoever I'd suggest not assuming that the 989 is better than the 988.

Paul

 

For once we agree!! Although from listening I would say that in a typical room, the 988 is at least as good maybe even preferable. sadly in Henry's palacial surroundings I suspect the extra panel or a subwoofer would be required

Hmmm. Might I suggest a trip to Burberry's and maybe a Hushpuppy stockist prior to this appoinment?

 

Saturday mid-morning I fancy... Going to make the phone call this lunchtime (Thursday 16th), so speak now or forever hold your piece.

LOL! Actually, I think the shop's proprietor could probably kit me out from his own personal wardrodes. Failing that I'm sure he knows some past clients who could help out.

Seriously, just for sec, I'm going to dem with what they have in the shop, so it's going to be a case of either Quad or Sugden kit I pair the ESLs with. Which should I go for? I might bring my Delius DAC along.

 

I'd take the DAC dude, and yeah, if it's mid morning count me in Not sure what time Ian hits Exeter, but the Coen Bros film isn't until 2 so that's sweet.

As for holding my piece - I do enough of that already. :beer: As for peace, well there's never any of that when I'm around :elephant: :banana:

 

Quad or Sugden up front?

Hmm - if the Sugden is Masterclass, I'd go with that. Not because I've heard the Sugden, but because I've heard the Quad upstream stuff and it's just a little too safe (read moribund) for my tastes. You really ought to take your Gamut if you can - it's my kind of amp

reg