Living with panel/electrostat speakers

Damn it. That rules out mine then.

 

Whatever it was, it sure wasn't right, kinda Cinemascope. Whilst it could have been the electronics that were at fault, I would have to say that all stats I have heard have a certain diffuse quality to the soundstage unless toed in severely, at which point they sound like good box speakers.

This was certainly the most extreme extreme case of this stretching effect I have heard, but Henry seemed to like it which in this case is all that matters. I just hope no one mistakes a difference in presentation for a genuine improvement.

 

I would hope that the Quads differ in this respect. Most stats approximate a line source whereas the Quads, as you know, are engineered to approximate a point source.

I'm sure that Henry won't mistake a change for an improvement - he's been around long enough to avoid that trap.

I guess that the only sure thing we can take away from this is that your sesh at JJs underlines, once again, the room and system dependence of any individual component in the reproduction chain. That factor, and all our differing music priorities reinforces the necessity of an in home audition.

reg

 

What would you call a pair of "proper" speakers then Merl?

Well, I tell you what. I do find headphone listening to be one of the most consistantly engaging experiences, and that's not even with very high quality phones. I can see where the comments about the Quads sounding like a big pair of headphones comes from now and fully identify with it, but in the most positive sense. They provide a better (but not total) sense of isolation from the room, deliver lots of direct sound and provide intimacy and directness in spades. They remind me of all the things I like about my Verity's, plus do things which the Verity's can't. They were the most engaging speakers of the day by far and that's what mattered. Everything else left me cold.

You guys can argue about image size until the cows come home, but for me, I didn't even think about that aspect of the sonic reproduction, mainly of course because image size is way down my list of priorities. In fact, I'd not even given it a thought, but since it's been bought up I suppose for certain types of small ensemble music things could be accused of being a bit larger than life, but then I'd argue in some ways that that maybe be down to the recording. Also, I think the CDP has built-in upsampling which can have an effect of making things seem more "cinemascope" in persepctive. The image was of roughly equal size when I listened to the 989s at the local dealer the other week. For a full size symphony orchestra though, the perspective was entirely realistic. I'd also argue the same for a live rock gig too, no not because the instruments are that large in real life which they aren't, but when you're in the audience you're listening to the PA arean't you which would produce an equally big wall of sound type effect that I got when listening to the "G3 In Concert disc".

Hi Chris. I'm happy to that I prefered the British contender too. Although not in my case has that got anything to do with nationalistic pride, just that on the practical side of things it would be much easier to get service attention, not to mention second hand availability. In some ways, that's probably the only thing which counts against trying to import a pair of old Apogee or Maggies.

The Lumley Lampros I listened to used ribbons (these were the small £10k Lampros, not the £18k ones that the other guys heard and took an instant dislike to). Either way, the bass being produced by the cone driver just didn't sound right to me after the Quads (and the same went for every other cone based drivers I heard that day) - not so much an integration issue more of an (inherent?) sonic character issue to do with cones maybe? Merlin's JBL's were a good half way house I thought, but I'd not lose any sleep over trying to get what the JBLs can do in my next speaker.

True Steve. OK, what I'm trying to get across is two issues I guess. First, is the issue of a speaker's reliance on a room for its bass loading i.e. I'm thinking of bass reflex vs transmission line speakers. To me, the tranmission line interacts with the room less and is therefore generally less reliant on a room to produce extension, quality and quantity of bass which happens along the length of its transmission line. The other is the amount of direct sound that is able to reach the listener at the listening position, speakers with large radiating areas/patterns again, as I see it interact with the room less because the listener gets more direct and less reflected sound (from the "room").

The "told you so" wasn't for you Reg - WM correctly predicted the outcome so that was for him. But yes, the smiling gently bit was for you.

 

Only chucking with ya

I reckon given that you have the room to house them, the 989's would take a lot of beating, and if you are seduced by their inherent strengths then nothing will.

As you know, I was a panel guy once, and still may end up going back one day if I ever have the room! My reason for preferring the Merlin's to the ML's was a certain incisiveness that I prefer on some of the musical genres I favour.

I do adore the Stax's however, finding that they give me that palpability and directness for when I want to be totally imersed in the music. Shame you didn't get a chance to listen to them.

I guess it all goes to show just how personal the choice of loudspeaker is in the scheme of things. I reckon from your comments you may well have found your nirvana which is great news. Now you just have to decide on the colour

 

Believe it or not ...

The ESL57 was originally available only in a military green. A friend of mine told Quad that he'd like to buy a set but wanted it in black. His was the first black ESL57.

So, ask and you may get.

Pretty interesting eh? :MILD:
I'll be in my room if anyone needs me.

 

Great Idea Steve, a kind of camoflage kit to prevent them being mistaken for radiators.

Along similar lines, maybe you could mount a fake firn on top of each Awesome and attach branches and leaves to the Nonsuches to prevent them being mistaken for speakers

 

I'm finicky about image. I don't recognise this 'turn every vocalist into a wide mouth bass' characteristic in Quads. OTOH I only have access to lowly ESL63s... I suspect it's down to positioning. Which is convenient since Quads are really easy to move about.

(I had to go back up the thread to work out what you were all talking about, I thought I was in a den of soundstage mavens)

Paul

 

Never mock the acoustic properties of a well-placed firn. Use the 'mirror method' ** to determine precise placement BUT...
ALWAYS use genuine organic firns, never fakes.

If you didn't spend all your time fudging around with digits instead of cultivating your room, you'd know that.

** The 'mirror method' is to get a friend to hold a mirror against the wall while you're sitting in your listening chair. Wherever you see the speakers in the mirror, that's where you place your absorbent material.

 

Of course many enthusiasts should also apply the mirror test to their floors and ceilings. Nonsuch owners have no such need, as early reflections from the floor and ceilings have already been catered for. :smug:

 

Just shame about the sound still you can't have everthing digital x/over anyone ?

 

Well, I think green would be OK. Although the worst feature of the 57's would have to be those awful grills...



...and double the gruesomeness in stacked form, IMHO.

 

Steve, I have used the Mirror Method on many occasions. This involves me having a friend move a large mirror along the wall Between the speakers until I can see a perfect reflection of my good self. Once this is accomplished, I pull out the air guitar, turn the crown and JBL up to 11 and ROCK:slayer:

 

Yup, that's the idea. Care to post any photos? :scientific curiosity:

 

Experience with planars

Wow, what a thread ! I could never go back to boxes. Just to add my 2 pennorth . .
Started off with Quad 57s driven by NVA monoblocks. Great midrange, imaging and transparency but the NVAs were not happy and the Quads just didn't do it for me at the frequency extremes or in dynamics. Although placed close to side walls, their 90cm width still took a chunk out of useable floor space.
Then moved on to some Magneplanar 2.5 ribbons. Much more like it. Not quite the transparancy of the Quads but still with great imaging, more dynamics, useable bass and reasonably seamless integration between ribbon and planar magnetic. Changing the NVAs for a Plinius SA50 added half an octave, and a lot more delicacy and overall improvement.
The Maggies had to go (blocked out too much light form the windows !) and, after a short dalliance with a pair of little Genexxa ribbob/cone hybrids (amazing for £100) I trieds some Indian Cadence Anina electrostatic hybrids. Whilst dynamic, these have been the worst in integrating cone woofer and electrostatic mid and top. Like towing a truck with tissue paper.
Next up a pair of Audiostatic Wings - full range electrostatics again. So much better than the Quads - they went reasonably low (though of course still had the typical panels perceived lack of slam) and have probably been the most transparent speaker I've owned. Micro dynamics were incredible with fantastic depth and imaging. Needed a sub to provide a bit of flesh at the bottom end for some music. Drove these with the Plinius and later a pair of Parasound JC1s. Now moved on to Martin Logan Prodigies and a Lyngdorf TDA2200+; 99% of the transparency of the Audiostatics married with a lot more dynamism and bottom end extension. Definitely the best compromise for me yet. No real integration issues as yet but I do wish I could pull them further away from the front wall.
The only fly in the ointment with all of these panels have been my room sizes - never had one really big enough. Current abode sports a 20' x 13' lounge but MLs fire across the shorter width (so about 2m apart and 2.4m to sofa) and leave little space for flexibility. The Audiostatics are now up for sale.