look what i found

political correctness is the art of including all religions by eliminating christianity

political correctness is white middle class beaurocrats deciding what offends foreign people

We are not a multicultural society


BOLLOCKS

 

Hi John,

I'm with you on this one.

SCIDB

 

where did you find it?

 

it's a member signature on this forum

 

I'm with you on this one also John. I've already asked that member to change his sig (not least because it's way too long) but as yet he hasn't done so.

Michael.

 

Michael

I'm glad someone else noticed it.

 

I was the author, and allow me to express exactly what I meant.
In a recent survey, there were roughly 50 million 'christian' people registered. The remainder made up about 5 million, about 1 in 10, so that is overwhelmingly non-multicultural.
Personally, I find the attempt by white middle class think tank office beauraucrats to eliminate all vestiges of christian symbols reprehensible, in the belief it will offend foreign people.
Myself, I have buddhist leanings, and as such have great love and respect for hindus, of which buddhism is an offshoot.
Sadly, instead of a glorious manufacturing past, this is all that is left for our country to indulge in. Banning freedom of a majority for some pedantic nitpicking by middle class types, whilst having meetings and drinking coffee doing it. Very sad.
Indeed, a lovely Indian origin hindu friend of mine celebrates christmas, and also find P.C. deplorable.
I also have a lovely pretty chinese girlfriend and woudln't change her for the world.
So when there is an overwhelming majority, one ought not to sacrifice traditions and beliefs by banning the majority.
Someone needs to speak out against bollux, and one day in the future, the extremes of p.c. WILL be seen as a sad chapter and we shall return to a sensible balance between all. One has to include ALL to be p.c and not simply ban symbols of one for the sake of all others. Either ban all or ban none at all.
I love britians variety, and as I have said before,many nice foreign people are infinitely better than some rude middle class white britiains.
Those are simply my motives and I have no other motive whatsover in the above statement.

The comment has to be seen in this context and this alone.
all are welcome to reply, but I have an idea of what the comments will be, many will hold to these views but will stay silent, and many will jump to conclusions, suppositions and predjudices. The very thing they champion against, which in itself is judging and labelling.

love and goodwill to all.


Out of respect to Micheal who seems a genuinely good guy, I will alter it, and wish him well whatever happens with the forum

 

In a recent survey, there were roughly 50 million 'christian' people registered. The remainder made up about 5 million, about 1 in 10, so that is overwhelmingly non-multicultural.

I suppose that depends on where in the UK you live.

Personally, I find the attempt by white middle class think tank office beauraucrats to eliminate all vestiges of christian symbols reprehensible, in the belief it will offend foreign people.

who are these WMCTTOB's? Where is the evidence for this and what do you mean by ''foriegn people'', tourists?

 

Hi LCD,

I agree that PC has gone too far, but your signature (out of context, before your explanation) seemed provocative to say the least.

Like you I have friends from many faiths and we all take part in Christmas celebrations and do take the mick out of each other. The only person I know that doesn't celebrate Christmas is my next door neighbour (Johovah's witness).

However, you need to remember why PC came about. It was a good idea which seems to have gone to the other extreme.

 

pc has had and will have to go to extremes to help make points that need making.

 

I agree with you, Ian.

I too find it disappointing that so many councils find it necessary to ban terms like 'Merry Christmas' allowing only 'Happy Holidays'; that Christmas trees have been banned because they might cause offense. I don't agree with the one quarter of all schools that have cancelled their carol services this year on the grounds that they may upset non-Christian ethnic minorities - except in those schools where Christian children themselves are in a tiny minority. Even where the Christians are in a minority why shouldn't the children be taught about Christianity as they are taught about Islam, Judaism and Hinduism, etc. in Christian schools?

Like your Hindu friend, I am also a non-Christian who doesn't find Christmas offensive and I agree with you that this type of PC is largely instigated by white, middle class beaurocrats deciding what offends non-white, non-Christians. They're wrong.

I wonder whether your statement We are not a multicultural society has been misunderstood and construed as racist and that this is the cause of the complaints.

I hope that none of us here are racist or prejudiced against anyone on the grounds of their colour, religion or beliefs - or even because they're not as anti-American as some people think they should be.

I do however wonder at some of the craziness that passes for 'political correctness' these days. My two favourite examples over the last year:

A choir in Farnborough was told to cut a line from the Beatles' When I'm Sixty Four, to avoid offending Jehovah's Witnesses. They had to drop the line "Birthday greetings, bottle of wine" because one child in the choir was a Jehovah's Witness, so didn't celebrate birthdays.

The Students' Union has ruled that the Christian Union at Hull University must allow atheists to help run it. Students' Union officials have said that the CU is breaking equal opportunities rules by excluding non-believers. At present the CU welcomes anyone to its meetings but insists that its leaders must be Christians.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

Pure class Steve

 

yes Steve, once again, thanks for distilling my thoughts better than I could say it.
it is one of those things that happens in your mind and you know exactly what you mean by it, yet others see a different meaning, coloured by different world views.
Contentious, yes, I suppose, but I knew exactly what I meant in my own mind, and it wasn't anti differences. It is the imposed bull that is prevelant.
Of course I am not rascist by definition, I agree no-one is inherently any different or deserving of 2nd or even 3rd class status, simply cos their skin is a certain colour.
It was an attack on pc and the madness that words have to be excluded. It really is that minorities dont' give 2 hoots about p.c. and hate it themselves.
They are simply idiots of the highest order, real wankers who make themselves open to it.
BTW, Steve, judaism is a wonderfully rich tradition, I used to be a christian myself, and boy that faith was so ' dilute' and ignorant about the wonderful richness and traditions and practices of Judaism, to the extent that they were missing out so much culture and all that.

maybe I should change my sig. to say councils are F***** wankers and a waste of cash?

 

Hmmm, religion is sufficiently unfashionable that I am tempted once more to lift my head above the parapet and say a few words in its favour.

I believe that many religions have much to contribute to our society's rich tapestry.

I'm a non-practising Jew with a German, Catholic wife (well alright, my family gets together once a year for the Passover dinner - all that wine and songs, can't resist). I love the emphasis on family in the Jewish religion and on the value of education and community.

There's an earthiness to Judaism too. In the Hebrew bible, Moses is described at his death at 120 years old as being an old man but, the author was at pains to point out, he was still sexually potent - he could still 'get it up'. Of course this has been watered down a bit in most English translations; it wouldn't sit very well with modern Christianity

I love the sanity of Buddhism - now here's a 'religion' for grown-ups. I particularly like the insane/sanity of Zen, my own particular favourite flavour of Buddhism.

I don't know much about Hinduism, but I was amazed on visiting India on business to see so many factories with temples on their grounds. Islam too, I have little knowledge of, except for Suffism which is a spiritual branch of Islam that uses on some really great stories as teaching tools.

My own spiritual journey is partly documented and can be read by anyone typing 'Steve Margolis' and 'Cade' into the search engines - please spare my blushes though if you do this. Somewhere along the route I read an amazing book called "Living with the Himalayan Masters" which details the experiences of Swami Rama when he was a young apprentice Swami and his teacher sent him out in the mountains to meet and learn from other spiritual masters.

In "Living with the Himalayan Masters", one of the great gurus that Swami Rama met was shown the gospels and asked to comment on Christ and Christianity. He said that, as far as he could see, Christ was an enlightened being and that, at its essence, Christianity was about the 'triumph of love over suffering'.

The 'triumph of love over suffering' is perhaps one of the most beautiful phrases I've heard to describe Christianity.

Much of the best of our moral code comes from the great religions and the Judao-Christian roots in particular have contributed much to the good in the societies that we live in.

The danger comes, in my view, when 'religious people' of whatever religion take their own book as the literal word of God. That way lies insanity, bloodshed and much of the worse in our societies and many of the serious problems we face.

When the essence can be distilled from religions and an enlightened interpretation put on them, much is gained. We should be wary when throwing out religions that what we replace them with doesn't just lead to a moral and ethical emptiness.

:end of Christmas message:
oh shit

 

I'd be interested to know the source of that figure. My guess is that it is from the electoral register, and I'm pretty sure as an upstanding atheist I and many like me will have been incorrectly counted in that figure. Whenever a government form has come through my door that has a 'religion' box to tick I either tick none or write atheist in big block capitals, yet Christianity seems to follow me around like a bad smell. The implication in the UK is that you are Christian unless you have actually figured out the bureaucratic system to such an extent that you actually can force the powers that be to change it, i.e. guilty until proven innocent. This is pissing me off to the extent I will write anti-theist next time!

Tony.

 

This typifies the state we are now in due to PC:-

TO: All Employees
DATE: December 1
RE: Christmas Party

I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take place on December 23, starting at noon in the private function room at the Grill House. There will be a
cash bar and plenty of drinks! We'll have a small band playing traditional carols...feel free to sing along. And don't be surprised if our Chairman shows up dressed as Santa Claus! A Christmas tree will be lit at 1:00 pm. Exchange of gifts among employees can be done at that time; however, no gift should be over £10.00 to make the giving of gifts easy for everyone's pockets. This gathering is only for employees! Our CEO will make a special announcement at that time!

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Patty

-----------------------------------------------------
FROM: Patty Smith, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: December 2
RE: Holiday Party

In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We recognise that Chanukah is an important holiday, which often coincides with Christmas, though unfortunately not this year. However, from now on we're calling it our "Holiday Party." The same policy applies to any other employees who are not Christians or those still celebrating Reconciliation Day. There will be no Christmas tree. No Christmas carols will be sung. We will have other types of music for your enjoyment.

Happy now?

Happy Holidays to you and your family.

Patty

-----------------------------------------------------
FROM: Patty Smith, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: December 3
RE: Holiday Party

Regarding the note I received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous requesting a non-drinking table... you didn't sign your name. I'm happy to accommodate this request, but if I put a sign on a table that reads, "AA Only", you wouldn't be anonymous anymore. How am I supposed to handle this?

Somebody?

Forget about the gifts exchange, no gifts exchanges are allowed since the union members feel that £10.00 is too much money and executives believe £10.00 is a little miserable.

NO GIFTS EXCHANGE WILL BE ALLOWED.

-----------------------------------------------------
FROM: Patty Smith, Human Resources Director
To: All Employees
DATE: December 7
RE: Holiday Party

What a diverse group we are! I had no idea that December coincides with the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids eating and drinking during daylight hours. There
goes the party! Seriously, we can appreciate how a luncheon at this time of year does not accommodate our Muslim employees' beliefs. Perhaps the Grill House can hold off on serving your meal until the end of the party-- or else package everything for you to take it home in little foil doggy baggy. Will that work?

Meanwhile, I've arranged for members of Weight Watchers to sit farthest from the dessert buffet and pregnant women will get the table closest to the bathroom.

Gays are allowed to sit with each other. Lesbians do not have to sit with Gay men; each will have their own table. Yes, there will be flower arrangement for the Gay men's table. To the person asking permission to cross dress, no cross-dressing allowed though. We will have booster seats for short people. Low-fat food will be available for those on a diet. We cannot control the salt used in the food we suggest for those people with high blood pressure to taste first. There will be fresh fruits as dessert for Diabetics; the restaurant cannot supply "No Sugar" desserts. Sorry!

Did I miss anything?!?!?

Patty

-----------------------------------------------------
FROM: Patty Smith, Human Resources Director
TO: All F***ing Employees
DATE: December 10
RE: The F***ing Holiday Party

Vegetarians?!?!?!? I've had it with you people!!! We're going to keep this party at the Grill House whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly at the table furthest from the "grill of death," as you so quaintly put it, and you'll get your #$%^&*! Salad bar, including organic tomatoes. But you know, tomatoes have feelings, too. They scream when you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing them
scream right NOW! I hope you all have a rotten holiday!
Drive drunk and die, you hear me!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!

The Bitch from HELL!!!!!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------
FROM: Joan Nordhey, Acting Human Resources Director
DATE: December 14
RE: Patty Smith and Holiday Party

I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty Smith a speedy recovery and I'll continue to forward your cards to her. In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.

Happy Holidays!

Joan

There used to be a saying, "sticks and stones........" but some morons continue to be offended by almost anything!

Meanwhile, decent discussion about Hi-Fi and music is taking place here:- http://www.hifiplus.org/forum/

 

PS I guess the figure could also come from baptism records, assuming there are such things, yet all this proves is the probable religion of the parents (I get the impression many non-practicing Christians baptise kids to kind of hedge their bets). I was baptised as a baby, yet there doesn't seem to be a established method of being unbaptised. Even if there were it would make no logical sense to an atheist – why undo something you don't believe in at all.

 

Hi Ian (Data),

What has 50 million christians & 5 million non christians got to do with being non-multicultural? Things are Multicultural if they take elements from different cultures, nationalities, races, countries etc. You can be multicultural & have the same skin colour. Over 1000s of years people have come to this country bringing various different things to the table.

Also where did you get those figures from. I have seen that the last censes showed that just 42 million people (nearly 72%) are christian. From this 36 million are white & christian. (p.s. that 36 million doesn't include people from Scotland)


http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=293
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=395

There has been many different people involved in the PC movement. You got to look into why PC took off in the late 70s & early 80s. It was a reaction to how bad things were. Personally, you should be having a gripe at the people who invent PC stories such as the banning of christmas in Birmingham

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk...anta-ban--says-shopping-centre-name_page.html

& the Hot cross bun ban story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...uns16.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/03/16/ixhome.html
http://www.york.gov.uk/cgi-bin/wn_document.pl?type=3293
http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/templates/news/detail.cfm?newsid=1454
http://www.pcc.org.uk/reports/resolved.asp?id=986
http://www.pcc.org.uk/reports/resolved.asp?id=972

There are many reasons to why the manufacturing past has declined. These are not due to being PC but more to lack of investment, price, not being competitive, too many strikes, poor management, etc, etc.

Depends what you mean by celebrating christmas. Most people look forward to the holiday season, a time to relax and enjoy. A lot of Christmas is based on a number of non christian celebrations & worship. Very few people go to church to celebrate the birth of christ. To a number of people, celebrating christmas means going to the pub at lunch time, drinking loads of beer, coming home & eating a bit of dinner, then falling asleep in front of the tv.

Who is banning freedom of the majority? Don't agree. We have more freedom now than we have ever had.

In a number of ways we have never had one. You have got to look at thing before PC hit big in this country to see why it did kick in.

It depends on the situation. Also you need to look at how, as a society, we want to develop.

This variety has been due to alot of multiculturalism. From food, to music, to clothes, to fashion, to business, to industry etc, etc.

What do you mean by 'foreign people'? What about people who were born here but of a different skin colour or people who are just visiting.
I'm just trying to find out what you really mean on this

Interesting comments. I do agree people need to talk about these subjects because there are a lot of lies, half truths & misinformation knocking about.

SCIDB

 

'Much of the best of our moral code comes from the great religions and the Judao-Christian roots in particular have contributed much to the good in the societies that we live in. '
What utter crap!
Our moral codes predate religions by millenia.
If we're such a Christian country why do only 2% go to church?

Bob

 

No one said that we're 'such a Christian country'.

What I said was:

Before Christianity came to these shores in about 1000AD, we adopted some of our legal system and our moral values from tribal customs that derived from Germanic tribes that invaded England after the Romans left, at the beginning of the 5th century.

Indeed, you can find traces of these tribal customs even today. For example, some of the procedures of the 'common law' and the administration of justice through the jury system came from these Germanic customs, many of which have quite an 'Old Testament' flavour to them.

Nevertheless, our modern attitudes to crime and social justice, the relationship between the sexes, marriage, education, the family, charity and the concept of welfare are undoubtably shaped predominantly by Judaeo-Christian influences.