Looking For a Digital Coaxial and have ££ ?

You're going to have to amplify your argument.

Paul

 

I would get another pair of Quads, the bit in the middle is ok, as long as you don't turn them up too loudly, and as you have been running Quads for a while you certainly won't miss the bits at either end.

 

no it isn't!

 

Why Paul? What's the chief source of colouration in most domestic listening rooms?

 

I just didn't want to hurt his feelings.

 

The loudspeakers.

Do you actually consider constant directivity through the midrange a good thing?

Are you making progress with your new setup?

Paul

 

Rest assured you couldn't possibly do that.

Yours and Murray's opinions on Quads allow me to determine your reliability. It's a free world but are you sure that, as people of a very much minority taste, you should be so free with your general advice? Perhaps a disclaimer would make sense?

Paul

 

Thats a good idea, I shall foreward every statement with,
'having been fortunate enough to hear just what is possible with music reproduction ,I am qualified to say that the middle bit of a Quad isn't too terrible, if you don't have them on too loudly'.

 

Actually the typical loudspeaker is relatively linear and uncoloured when measured in an anechoic chamber . By far the largest deviations from neutrality only occur in small spaces.

I consider controlled directivity to be a good thing yes - if I want to hear what is on the recording that is. Do you not want to hear the recording?

No it sounds shit. Horns, ports and valves. A recipe for disaster.

 

No worries. If anyone wants to saddle themselves with old Quads on Paul's recommendation (despite them blowing up/electrocuting children or pets) then I won't be held responsible.

There. Will that do?

 

You're taking things just a TAD too seriously I think.

Actually what I want to do is put on whatever has last fallen through the letterbox from Amazon and be captivated regardless of whether I'm supposed to be working or not. And then I want it to just get better if I go into the living room and put my head in the right sort of spot. If this is promoted by 'controlled directivity' then I'm all for it. What I don't see (yet) is a particular connection between compression driver/horn loading/80W30H/3 octaves and 'controlled directivity'.

A forward step then?

Paul

 

And you with a physics background. Really Paul - you disappoint.

Still. A statement rather than a question.

Seems that way.

 

I think you'll find that users of electrostatic speakers (and particularly Quads) are very much in the minority Paul. There are many, many moving coil speakers out there.

 

Murray - Paul is also a fan of the mighty 'Brik I believe so he's not immune to the charm of big box speakers. - just possibly good ones.

 

But people who think there is something actually wrong with the Quad midrange form a very, very, exclusive group.

Paul

 

There's an implied question to explain what your numbers, constant over 3 octaves and (I think) really quite wide, mean. Basically what are the horns doing that make them worth having when the overall efficiency is controlled by the conventional direct radiating bass.

'coops' could try this one too. What is the engineering justification for the Cessaros? Presumably his midrange output is symmetrically dispersed given the roundness of his horn.

Paul

 

Paul,

Firstly my system is active - I can run a 1 watt amp if I want on the mid and treble. I run a 7 watt unit that never uses more than 0.6 watts keeping distortion vanishingly low for a good valve amplifier.

Secondly the radiation pattern of a 165mm bass unit in a traditional small two way will only become that directional around 2khz, at which point it is often crossing over to the 1" tweeter that will only become similarly directional above 12khz. So from the bottom end up to the top octave, the dispersion of a typical two way will vary between 360 degrees and around 120 degrees. This often makes for an amusing power response, and in addition, ends up sticking a rather nastly crossover step right in the most sensitive area - between 2khz and 3khz.

Said speaker is less sensitive than it needs to be because of baffle step losses. It's wide dispersion means that the listener receives a relatively low ratio of direct sound to reflected. And because of the uneven power response and the uneven absorbtion from room surfaces, the combination of direct sound and early reflections (particularly floor reflections) results in a smeared and coloured sound unless you are prepared to sit in the near field. Phase information that recreates the recorded image is irrepairably damaged and corrupted. You hear more of the room and less of the recording. Subjectively you might enjoy it - but it's artificial - like that soundstaging you loathe so much.

In comparison, I receive a far higher ratio of direct (recorded) sound to reflected, the power response is predicable, and I have no nasty phase and frequency abherrations in the critical midrange. I could also discuss the vanishingly low distortion levels inherrent in modern compression diaphrams that require far less excursion to provide proper listening levels and the enormous dynamic headroom limited only by the number of bass drivers I employ.

Controlled dispersion, DRC or extensive room treatment are the only ways IME to faithfully replay recordings in a domestic enviroment. Without those, you are left with "musicality" and fake soundstages. Very nice if you like those kinds of things.

 

Well said that man

 

Mike,

You are comparing to a bad two way. Why not to a good three way or an ELS? Where's the unique advantage of the horn loading? That is as a loudspeaker assuming competent amps are available...

Paul

 

A typical three way is just the same - what do you imagine the dispersion pattern of a 3" cone is at 400hz?

It's just you've got more crossover steps and more of a chance to screw up the time domain. An electrostatic is a dipole of course, meaning half the sound in a normal room is bouncing off the rear wall and causing phase cancellation left right and centre. Fortunately my devices are fairly impervious to the rear wall. The horns also have a decent dynamic range. Sorry but all the stats I have either owned or lived with simply cannot generate realistic levels so fail at the first hurdle of accurate replay.