Mains cable test results

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum1/1614-12.html

 

Hi,

May I ask why you bothered with all of the rigemarole? With that sample size, you simply cannot draw any conclusion.

That is before we criticise the methode for actually letting the subjects know what was being tested and thus bringing in personal prejudice/believe into this as strong randomising agent.

Are you deliberatly trying to generate random results? If so your methodology is fine, but of course it does not provide any relevance to any of this.

Ciao T

 

it has nothing to do with sample size.

The difference would be neglible given that the typical room distorts the tonality much more than a cable would.

 

Uhhh... yeah but the way the room distorts the sound would be a constant in the test.

 

but why bother trying to figure out if one cable sounds different from another ? The difference is not night and day, whereas you can't even achieve stereophonic sound in the typical room.

 

havent read the link, not interested in the findings.

what use have I, in audiophiles pretending to be scientists?

if I wanted to look into the topic, I'd read some white paper by people who actually know what they are doing. I'm not slandering the participants - Im sure they are nice people. Just like me, they probably have day jobs and experience which is irrelevant to the topic in hand.

 

Well i'm not going to be scientific or ramble on about hours and hours of tests but i have heard differences in mains cables. When my new amp arrived with a damaged plug i used an old cable some ten to fifteen years old, over a metre long too. Later i thought i would put a new plug on the new lead. This sounded so bright and harsh compared to the old one so i just thought it needed burning in. Went back to the old one in the end. Then i met Zanash and made his cables and i noticed a big change in the soundstage, it had broadened very noticably. The back to front had to my ears only slightly improved. What this means or how it's acheived i don't know. Jimbo.

 

Sorry to say that this cable test is rather poor, from a statistical point of view its a joke. I your going to test a cable you need a big sample size, not just a few mates. Whats wrong with using your ears?

and finally at least one "naysayer" was involved, who in the past has made a big point of dismissing the cable effect , so I feel there may have been another agenda involved here.

 

It's not the first time they've tried to be scientific and I suspect it won't be the last. Helps to keep HifiWigwammers happy I guess but serves no other purpose.

Still it's nice to see such inexperience and enthusiasm however misguided.

 

I suggest a suitable task for those conducting this test and those discussing it to be:

please re-arrange these words into a well known phrase or saying:
"life a get"

For heaven's sake all of you, get out more! You appear to be discussing the number of angels that can dance on a pinhead. Who cares about proof? The only opinion that counts is that of the listener, for whom there is either a benefit or not. Why are so many people obsessed with 'proof'?

 

I agree S&M, so I think it'll be nice if people stop ****ing on their ideas and actually came up with constructive suggestions on how the tests could be more productive. Having said that I can't see any such exercise resolving the great cabling debate. There will always be sceptics and believers.

 

I found it interesting.

 

Well I took part in that test which I regard as an honest and fair attempt to address a problematic issue:

How should we use subjective judgement to make objective statement that a piece of hifi kit (in this instance a mains cable which is not the piece of kit on which we spend most ££) makes signifcant different in stereo reproduction?

I came out as having failed the 'kettle test', and before I knew that I was not alone it was a bit shocking to think that I could not tell Stock from butter.

The thread now seems to be taking a turn towards circumstances where the mains cable could make a difference, which might be better grounds for the hifi hobbyist.

Still need to come up with a (quasi-) experimental design that would command support wrt internal validity (is there a difference/improvement?) and external validity (over what settings/contexts does this apply?).

Trusting our ears is of course at centre of things, whether or not we carry out our own case studies (it does it for me and its my dosh) or tale part in attempts to extract objective findings from subjective experience.

 

There's absolutely no problrm combining subjective judgement, experimental design and statistics - psychologists do it all the time. I suggest the testers contact the psychology dept of the local college/uni next time - someone might derive some benefit as a final year project, for example.

 

Hi Dev,

I have extensively commented on the issues with the statistics and issues involved in blind testing itself, including "testing the test". These are matter of record in the public domain and where also noted again in the context of the earlier debate about this test over here.

If someone KNOWS the issues and problems and then proceeds nevertheless, what is one to say.

Statistics is a science. And it has a number of things to say about levels of certainty vs. sample size. With the given sample size and a moderatly small difference the rule is simple. You have not enough data to say anything with any confidence. That is inherent and implicit in the experimental setup.

It is one of the experiments I refer to a "rigged to return a null result". That is the statistics only.

Ciao T

 

Hi,

Do you hold any particular views (or did you happen to hold them pre-test) about the audibility of mains cables? If so you would have been very likely (statistically speaking an estimated .8) to have produced a random or wrong result disregardles of the real state of affairs.

So, you may not have "failed" the test, instead your own prejudices may have prevented you from percieving clearly.

Ciao T

 

I now have the big bits that I like (see sig.) and am looking to eek out any more to be had, and it is with open mind and willingness to believe that I approach both interconnects and mains cabling.

My main finding from having analysed the data from the test that Mosfet carried out was that there was an order effect at work: folk seemed to prefer the second cable they listened to. I tried to nullify that for myself in the Kiang test, which did have a 'blindness' to it.

But thank you for your counselling. I expect to be out of therapy quite soon now.

 

Didn't anyone tell you; its purpose is to keep the experienced and wise amused

 

just to say thank you to those who have remained neutral or positive over this test. I took part at Wigwam to see what my ears thought. I am sorry to find such dismissive and, frankly, snobbish and arrogant, views expressed here, especially since those who express them read as though they were well educated. Part of my (supposedly good) education taught me that tolerance and respect for others were useful virtues in life. Possibly an old fashioned view but still with some validity I feel.

 

Hear Hear.
I also took part in the test mainly to see what (if any) difference an expensive mains lead would or wouldn't make to MY system, in MY home, and to MY ears.
Insofar as giving me that information, this test was a success .
It was also a bit of FUN. After all, that is a main reason behind this hobby (for many of us) is it not?