Martin Logan Clarity speakers

I've just taken delivery of a pair of Martin Logan Clarity electrostatic hybrids. These were intended to replace a set of JMLab Electra 905's (excellent speakers!).

The reputation of the legendary midrange open-ness and imaging attracted me to the ML's. First plays last night though have left me very disappointed. I know they need very careful room placement, but after lots of experimenting I can't find any room position that creates a good sound. They are very bloated and boomy in the bass and thin/nasally in the midrange - the last thing I expected to hear really.

They're being driven by a Sugden A21a, which although only 25w, is a good amp and doesn't seem to be struggling to drive them (plenty of volume). The room is relatively small - about 12*18', speakers firing across the 12'. I've managed to get the speakers well away from wall boundaries but still no improvement.

I've only read good things about the ML's - has anybody else struggled to get a balanced sound out of them. The biggest surprise is the really poorly controlled bass.

Thanks,
tom.

 

I'd also be very interested to hear comments on the Clarity, as it's very high up my "next speaker" list!

With regards to power, I'm not sure if the A21 is the ideal partner for these speakers, but there are a lot of people (having researched the Clarity's over on Audio Asylum and on the ML forum) using medium-high powered (18wpc+) SET's successfully with them.

I've also heard room placement is critical.

Sorry for stating the obvious cougar, but are these brand new out-of-the-box? If so, have you run them in for the recommended 30 hours (have the manual in front of me!!)? IME most new speakers need 200 odd hours before really loosening up....

DT

P.S. Do you have the NAC turned on or off?

 

The A21 is simply out of it's depth. Try something with a stiffer PSU - something like the Lyngdorf integrated at that sort of price.

 

A freind of mine had a similar problem with his Aerius i (?) and no manner of messing sorted it out - at least until he swapped the naim amps he was using for a bi-amped linn lk280 set up. However, he has since moved, and the speakers really opened up even more in a bigger room. Personally, I have always loved the sound of quad ESL's but can't quite get used to the ML's.

 

At one point you mention the Sugden doesnt seem to have a problem driving the ML's, then you mention the lack of bass control ?

This problem sounds familiar, with overblown and or poorly controlled bass due to an unsuitable amplifier, the Sugden just doesnt have the watts/current/dampening needed for the ML's which although not as bad as some earlier designs are still quite a tough load.

 

I would try to borrow something like a bryston or similar to try out. Did you buy them blind or after a demo? If the latter, what was the dealer/seller using to powervthem?

Rod

 

Thanks for all the replies folks. It does sound as though as the Sugden may be the problem, just not enough damping to control these ML's.

These Clarity's are an ex-dem pair I have on trial, so they are fully run-in. I don't know what the dealer was driving them with, but he assured me that the Sugden wouldn't be a problem. I'll have to see if I can get hold of a beefier power amp and see what happens. Unfortunately, unlike sme of the larger ML's they don't have bi-wire terminals otherwise I'd try to bi-amp them with my now spare a21p.

I'd like to get them working if I can they are so close to being superb, but the overblown bass is making them totally out of balance and upleasant to listen to for long.

thanks again, at least I know that people have got them working in relatively small rooms.

cheers,
tom.

 

Hi,

While I have no direct experience with the ML's per se, I would say that your amplifier while not ideal, it is unlikely to be the problem. I heard similar problems when using Inner Sound Hybrid ESL's in small rooms.

The problem is that hybrid ESL's are dipoles in the range in which they should be monopolar and highly directional (midrange and treble) and onmidirectional where they should be di/unipolar (bass), so you invariably get the worst of both types of speakers, by design.

If you have a very large room you can delay the rear treble and midrange output enough to attenuate it and delay it to fall outside the presedence effect window and to only add (still in most cases unwanted) extra room reverb. Equally, in a large room it is easier to resolve the low frequency room interactions and I suspect the ML's bass level is balanced for such large rooms and lossy, all wood american buildings.

What you can try before giving up on a speaker designed completely backwards to the acoustic requirements is to place them along the short room dimension (12') and fire down the length of the room, try a distance to the rear wall of around 7', you can go quite close to side walls.

With the bass the best solution is a combination of the "WASP" (see my article in TNT-Audio) and a recently developed spreadshhet by the guy's over at acoustica.org:

http://www.acoustica.org.uk/a/rhythm.html

You can also try placing some acoustic foam (instead of socks) in the port or to block it up completely, to tune down the bass a little.

I suspect a combination of these will help reduce the issues.

Ciao T

 

Don't fret................

my ML Aerius i's took six months to break in ....but now sound fantastic [5years down the line].

Get yourself an xlo cd with the burnin tracks......works very well, thugh you will have to leave the house while they play !

 

oh yes................... mine had no bass at all, and I bought a cheap sub to fill in but with time things loosened up. I've used a varriety of amps fro T-Amps to Quad 707 To valves ......I suspect that your sugden will be fine in the end.

 

Then your comments are pure conjecture and IME, way wide of the mark.

I would suggest Thorsten, that you nip over to KJ and listen to some Clarities with different amplifiers, before commenting.

As a former ML owner, I would say the Sugden is wholly inappropriate.

 

As a former ML owner, I would say the Sugden is wholly inappropriate.[/QUOTE]


HEAR HEAR

 

If you dont like the logans. I will take them off you ;o)....

 

Somobody asked about the NAC (the inbuilt upfiring tweeter). I've tried it both on and off, it seems to make little difference to the overall tonal balance when you're in a normal listening position. it only adds anything when you're away from the main position (as designed).

 

Sure Hsam, your's for only £2499

cheers,
tom.

 

So many different responses here, but I guess I expected that, the ML's are not a straightforward speaker.

After playing around some more this weekend, I think it's definitely a combination of room and amplifier issues. I can't get hold of any big amps to play around with in the short term, so I may have to give up on these for now and go back to my JMLab Electra's.

It's a crying shame, because as revealing as the Electra's are, to use that old cliche, I've heard details on my Cd's through the Clarity's that I never knew were there! But overall I just can't get a comfortable balance with them. Can't escape the feeling that they've been voiced for the typically much larger US rooms.

tom.

 

Takes time to get speakers positioned & sounding right, cougar - 30 odd years of R&D shouldn't be dismissed on the basis of a few days listening with a less-than-optimal amplifier and limited driver "break-in" time.

But as you say, they are primarily designed with larger, wood frame US rooms in mind.

Keep trying - don't give up yet!

DT

 

As I said .....being the only current ML user [?]... if the speakers are new they will need breaking in. I you want to pm I may be able to offer you a few crumbs of info to help.

 

Guys, several people have commented on ML break-in time so I'll just repeat the speakers are ex-dem so they're fully broken in.

 

The clarity needs around 3ft or more of space behind it.

They have a nominal impedance of 6 ohm which drops tp 1.1 ohm at 20khz, making a high current capable amp necessary in my view, the recommended rating is 200w, but I think 100w of high current amp would suffice.

They have an 8" driver which rolls of in the upper bass at 450hz, and an in room responce of 45hz in the lower bass.
They also have a soft dome tweeter firing up behind the electrostatic panel. (to aid treble responce at low volumes I believe)

Quoted figures are 46hz-22khz +/- 3db, 200w power handling 89db sensitivity 6 ohms. (1.1 at lowest)

3m to 4m wide by 4m to 5m deep, minimum room requirements.(my personal view)