Matrix : Revolutions

michael,
i'm sure at some unconscious level it would permiate their psyche. so that when smith gets his, they'll add a few more bullet holes to the cinema's ceiling whilst mumbling about the danmed reds between the yeeee-hawwww's.
cheers


julian

 

I think the problem with The Matrix is the first one was over-rated. I remember seeing it at the cinema all those years ago and I thought it was an OK film but nothing too special, the Rage Against the Machine track at the end being the most memorable thing imho.

So then to this year and everyone's going on about how excellent the first one was and the second one comes out and it's a bit pants. I wasnt too surprised. It did have an excellent car chase bit in it, so it wasnt total drivvel.

The third one, now that wasnt good at all. And the ending is so rubbish, I mean, it's like it's designed to appear really complicated and amazing but really it's not even clear what happened exactly, you can still only hypothesis - and is it really worth putting the effort into hypothesising when it isnt a great film and it probably isnt even well thought out in the first place.

It all seems to me like a second rate idea which has been dressed up a bit like the emporer's new clothes.

 

I have enojyed the Matrix films but the first one promised a lot that ultimately wasn't delivered.

Compare it to LOTR or even the original Star Wars trilogy and you can see how a properly developed idea/story is soooo much better. With the Matrix films I can't help feeling they were making it up as they went along and that's never going to work.

It's also frustrating because you end up trying to make sense of it all and "explain" everything and it's just not possible. Perhaps they thought that an "open" ending and so many loose ends was being clever. If it had been a truly great film then maybe it would have been but in this case it just looks a bit pathetic (or just leaving the door open for a sequel).

On the whole, enjoyable brain candy which is more thought provoking than the average Hollywood pap but could have been so much better.

Michael.

 

FWIW, I enjoyed both Matrix films and I am looking forward to the third.

The visual style of the Matrix showed us how movie making could be an extension of the comic book. "Bullet-Time" is a prime example.

I liked the premise from Reloaded that Zion is all part of the master plan, and although Neo thinks he's making choices those paths are already predetermined.

Matrix et al is just disposable pop culture. Hollywood knows what sells. Worthy films with great integrity don't appeal to the masses generally. Shawshank Redemption is a great example. The cinema release flopped, but word of mouth made the VHS and DVD a relative success.

Revolutions is pop. Every now and then I like a shot of something light and fizzy. This fits the bill. Pass me the pop corn, I'm switching my brain off for a couple of hours.

 

Does he still do a bit of this in the Revolutions film, or does he not have to?

 

There's plenty of fighting if that's what you're after. There's the one "big" fight with Smith which is pretty cool but less Kung Fu overall.

But you didn't really want to know that did you? You just wanted an excuse to post another smilie

Michael.

 

still only seen the first one - i'll wait 'till the trilogy emerges on dvd before catching the others.


I'm too tired to read or anything else, hence just passing time.

 

IIRC the Wachowski brothers approached the studio with the story of the matrix but no-one was prepared to fund the movie.
Their only experience in movies so far was writing the screenplay for assassins.
They were however given $1000000(I think) to make a movie and prove themselves as writers and directors.
The movie they made was called Bound.
I suggest renting Bound if you can find it.

 

Pop?? I would dispute that a tad with these quotes from The Architect:

As much as I enjoyed Shawshank I can't really think of anything in it that requires that level of thinking, hardly pop IMHO? Shawshank has a moral, and a good story, one of what man can achieve and overcome in his mind, but TBH any of the first two Matrix films have that in spades.... OK Shawshank is based in the "real" world….or is it

As for the third, well I found it a bit disappointing, to depressing and downbeat, main characters getting wiped out and one big dark battle scene which seemed to go on for an eternity. Put it this way I was looking at my watch about 3/4 of the way through, and that's never something I would do during Shawshank or The Matrix/The Matrix - Reloaded.

Well that's my 2p worth anyway :MILD:

 

Glad you didn't spoil it for everyone who hasn't seen it yet

Michael.

 

Well, I have now seen Matrix III. I can't compare to the previous two because I haven't seen them, nor am I likely to after having seen the new one.

Long - if a little derivative - on visual ideas, very, very short on story, I'd say.

Would someone please tell me what all the hoopla is about?

 

It did occur to me when I was typing away there I figured that if people didn't know which characters they were all would be OK

 

Markus...one word: Blockbuster

Seriously though, rent them. At least the first one. The first one is by far the best.

Michael.

 

Maybe, Michael, but the build-up of the story in M1 would be ruined for me by knowing it all fizzles out (with awfully cheap, gratuitious pseudo-Christian imagery) in the supposed big climax of M3.

Although I'll admit that for a man of your experience with, uh, worldly things the scene in the night club is interesting; I'm sure our American cousins will see a little less exposed flesh. But again: for a movie that's supposed to depict a future world, that scene was decidedly old-fashioned in its use of fetishism-inspired imagery.

Much of the rest of the film plays on claustrophobia, which has been nailed by Das Boot and other submarine stories.

The robots are far too insect-like, a ploy for playing on deep-seated anxieties (some of them do look awfully like spiders with their assortment of glowing eyes).

Maybe I have seen too many sci-fi films and read too many sci-fi novels to be impressed by this.

Then again, maybe I have seen too many bad movies to be impressed by yet another one, no matter how much it's been tarted up digitally.

 

You think the night club scene in M3 is interesting - you should see the "Rave"scene in M2

M1 and M2 both have quite a different feel to M3. M3 is distinctly the darkest of the three. Zion doesn't feature at all in M1.

On the imdb.com discussion boards about M3 there are teenagers who were upset by the appropriation of Christian imagery in the film...they found the suggestion that Neo was Jesus blasphemous

Michael.

 

Pop culture (in my book) panders to the instant gratification crowd. You don't have to wait long in Matrix 1, 2 or 3 (I guess as I haven't seen it yet) before there is some gratuitous violence to wake up the audience. Shawshank requires stamina by comparison.

The Architects quotes do exhibit thinking way above the general level of an action film, but you will notice they were followed pretty quickly by another battle scene to get those teenage adrenal glands pumping again.

 

See, that's exactly what the Matrix (all three of them) is all about - getting teenage adrenal glands pumping! If you don't have 'em, you won't like any of the Matrices; certainly not the last two. I certainly have 'em (despite not having been a teenager for a good while...), and I found the trilogy to be an excellent way to get those glands goin'!

The fact that they bring in interesting philosophical points to ponder and numerous religious references is just icing on the cake - and to be honest it is fairly adolescent philosophy... But IMO if it gets more adolescents thinking then it can only be a good thing.

As for Revolutions, well you can probably tell I loved it. To say the action scenes/SFX were technically sound is understatement of the century!! The assault on Zion has got to be one of the most awe-inspiring, bone-jarring experiences on film (well, with the possible exception of the D-Day landing in Saving Private Ryan...) and certainly had my jaw on the floor the whole time. The fact that it was almost pure SFX is even more impressive - it was gorgeous, and really, really worked well IMO. Certainly compared to some of the ham-fisted CGI of Reloaded, it was absolutely stunning!

As for the ending, well it may not have been entirely satisfying, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. I suspect, much like Reloaded, that it will make more sense and be better appreciated with multiple viewings. Some people see this as a flaw; I don't.

In the end, Matrix 1 is definitely the best film - it was finely crafted and perfectly timed to give the most entertainment value for its 2 hour running time. As a result it's very much an action film and doesn't have as much of the philosophising element as 2 or 3 (which I know a lot of people appreciate! ) Reloaded and Revolutions to my mind come across as somewhat clumsy by comparison - not nearly as tightly scripted or edited - possibly because the Wachowskis most likely had greater control than in the first one (let us not forget that they are still very inexperienced filmmakers, relatively speaking, and for them to tackle a trilogy of such scope and ambition with so little experience must have been extremely difficult, and IMO they came off very well).

Also, in my mind, Reloaded and Revolutions are designed much more like comic books than movies. The first is a fantastic film, the second and third would make fantastic comic books, IMO. The dialogue, the characters, the set pieces, the pacing, everything "felt" more like a comic book than a film to me. I suspect the W. brothers' lack of experience with film led them to (perhaps unintentionally) revert to a style and presentation with which they are more familiar for such an ambitious project.

So - could they have been better? Absolutely. Are they still enjoyable? Ditto, IMHO. I'll certainly be getting the DVDs.

Dunc

 

Fair enough comment, but I still maintain that there is a fairly good balance of both in M1 and M2, but not IMHO M3. Shawshank was a much slower paced film, and did require more staying power, whether that's a good or bad think is down to the individual to decide

I find that a little patronising TBH. Just because it was easily understood by your supreme intellect doesn't mean that I haven't had to explain what was going on at that philosophical level to many a 40+ year old.

 

Well I apologise for patronising you (hmm, that seems like a rather patronising thing to say ) but I can only speak from my own experience, and my own experience was of many late nights in my teens, sobering up after a pissup, and philosophising with a couple of semi-drunk mates along the lines of the Matrix....

But I suppose I could expand my statement as follows:

Dunc

 

I don't really think of it in such black & white terms as good or bad - its just there and it fits with the nature of a story about people spending their life in prison.