Meaty Amp

Hi guys,havent upgraded for almost 7 months and for good reason, have been very happy wiv my modest lil set up. But like all hifi's, what was once special slowly becomes the norm and you start noticing the flaws that wernt there before...

Now i believe the weakest link in my system is the amp, it is a great amp for the money but you do get what you pay for. As good as it is, there is definately room for improvement. Im looking for something with a vice like grip, the m53 are pretty big speakers and are quite tricky to control. The pm7200 isnt exactly a feeble amp but i would like to max the m53's out with something with abit more grunt.

Will have about £800 MAX, wil consider second hand but for reliablilty and the opportunity to dem' id prefer brand new...
Also, i do want pre outs(pm7200 dont have any!)so i can add a power amp at latter date.

Heres a few i have considered

Rotel RA1062
Cyrus 8
Marantz pm7200 Ki(maybe)...
Exposure 3010
Musical fidelity X-150

Im looking for vice like grip and control, loads of slam,speed and punch bass wise,nothing too bright. Excitment is prefered to laid back refinement but not sooo exciting that it turns brash and harsh sounding...

Might be too much to ask for at that price but the marantz does it pretty well so hopefull an amp costing 3 times more will excel even further at these qualities.

Any suggestions welcome

Ultra

 

Personally I'd be inclined to whack a big pair of speakers on the end of your current Marantz / Marantz electronics and sort out the amp at a later date. At that sort of money you could be looking at a variety of Meadowlarks, Monitor Audio GR20s, PMC FB1, etc. etc.

If you're sure you're looking for an amp, well, I'm currently buying stumblin's S300, but you could always wait for another one to show up

 

ultrasonic,
you may want to have a listen to the nait 5i as the qualities you want are naims forte. if you want even more bang for your buck have a look for a naim 32.5 or 62 or possibly 72 preamp and a 160, 140 or 180 power amp. if you have any money left over get one of avondale audio's new psu's.
if you are near to st albans have a word with james at tom tom audio. he deals in 2nd hand naim gear, he's a little more expensive than normal but he gives a 1 year money back garuntee which you may want and he'll let you demo stuff at his place too.
cheers

julian

 

Ultra,
Either the Rotel, (which I heard the other day, bloody good for what is it), or Uncle Kenny's special, ballsy and it kicks a bit.
Pete's suggestion of speakers is useful, I'd give the monitors a miss though, as they can be bright (even after replacing the internal silver wiring and fitting quality components to the x/overs) with all but the best electronics, they do punch, slam and dynamics well, just a bit too 'there you go chummy'
If you going to be a bit different Then PM Sideshow, he runs a Soneeter intergrated (digital amp), its pretty good and is around the money you want to spend

 

Personally after hearing the Ela's slaughter the M53's little brother, I'd argue the speakers were the weak link in your system now, I think something like the GR20's or Meadowlarks that Pete suggested may be a revelation in your system.

 

Would go with Julian. If you want slam and oomph have a look at the Naim Pre-Powers. I love mine, and if you don't like it you'll always get your money back if you're sensible about what you pay

 

So the allmighty killer marantz amp wasn't that good in the end.I'd go along with Tony on Sonneteer amps,Alabaster or Campion.The Bronze is class T digi ampm at 800.

 

Meadowlarks are good, but someone already snapped up the pair at JJ's... Unless he has another pair. If you find some though, I wouldn't hesitate. Then the amp for the rotel and I'd reckon on it being pretty good...

 

I'd be inclined to look at your speakers first as well. Once you have sorted them then get a newer amp, all the ones mentioned are all excellent althoughth the MA and PMC FB1 tend towards brightness, see if you can listen to ART Skibo's hard to get S/H mind most don't sell em but keep em, you could always add bass modules at alater date.
But try em they are a little bit special, should work with most amps as they are pretty neutral.

 

Id go for

1 a powerhouse of a second hand power amp for around 300 ( Ive seen a few in adverts that fit the bill).. maybe even a digital one as per the DIY 600w digital amp thread.

2 a DIY passive pre (about 100 if you use a stepped attenuator)

3 and a better pair of used speakers for about 400 used.

You're near the emporium in Diss, why not give Nick a bell... if you trade in your kit, you'd up the budget to about 1000-1200 - plenty.

Chris

 

THRESHOLD CAS 2 100 watt per channel mosfet power amp, boxed 500
YAMAHA F2200 professional series power amp 200 watts per channel,big
and heavy with grab handles, gain controls and vu meters 350

Ive posted these up before, I reckon the Yamaha amp in particular looks like a steal. Ive seen it, and its a piece of studio kit, very impressive.

That Yam shoved through a pair of meadowlarks would rock.

 

Thanx guys, lots of quality feedback Paul,the m53's are actually surprisingly good speakers , completely different league to the m51's which i picked the B&W 602 s3 over, and then picked the m53 over the B&W's

Say i do go for the speaker option, will the marantz be able to drive some of the more exotic models? Not sure about Naim stuff, they seem to be a love it or loathe it sort of brand but i wont judge it until i hear it

The Rotel amp really does tickle my fancy and with WM's thumbs up its more tempting still £800 is alot of money to me as i am a poor student so lengthy demo's are definate. Will give both amp and speaker options a try,afterall i can just relegate the m53's to main AV speakers

Havent got any dem's planned yet as im still saving up so im just gonna take my time and listen to everything!

Ultra

 

Cant see how they are that much better when they use the same tweeter (and the mids and treble was the weakest part of the M51's performance IMO) and appear to use the same midbass drivers too. I'd imagine it would be more like an M51 with more bass (given the same drivers but larger cabinet, probably not a good thing for most music). They aren't bad speakers FOR THE PRICE. Either way, the Ela destroyed them (and any other budget speakers that I've heard, for what its worth), and I'd fancy a decent pair of higher end speakers would easily show the M53's the door.

I know its something of a change of tune from me, but I guess you could say I've seen the light

 

Try an Audiolab 8000S or TAG Mclaren 60iRV. Great sound and can be upgraded with power amp(s) as and when you feel the need. May be a little 'laid back' for your tastes though so listen before laying down any cash!

 

Paul, the tweeter is actually a completely different model seriously, they are a matt black finish and i can assure you that the high frequency performance of the 53's are less bright and alot sweeter than the 51's. I think the 51's use the same tweeter as the m7 series. Not saying your Rega's aint good, im sure they're fantastic. I respect ur opinion on the m53's being the weak link in my system but i think i can drench more performance from them. The Rega's gost a fair bit more than your m51's so therefore should comfortably sound better! I dont blame you for thinking the 53's are simply the 51's with more bass but thats not the case at all, if u listened to them blindly you wouldnt even think they were part of the same range, the m53's extra bass driver helps provide a far more open midrange and like i mentioned before, the tweeter is alot more civilised and intricate. Yes, there is extra bass and it helps create a better soundsatge and image depth. I have listened to the m51s on several occasions and for lengthy periods too, i think im qualified to compare them to the 53's and notice the differences.

The press gave the 53's poor reviews. Hifinews gave it product of the year. The only reason i can think of is that the mainstream amgs never explored their potential by mass loading them and positioning them to perfection. Ive actually only just acheived optimum position a few days ago! Thats after 6months of messing with em! When they aint filled they do sound pretty average.

Ultra

 

Well, Mission's website says that the tweeters on both extend as far as 20,000 Hz, and that they are both 25mm microfibre dome units. Both speakers also claim a 2.4KHz crossover. Having looked at one, they looked identical too - indeed, I do not understand why they would use a totally different tweeter, but thats just me...

Perhaps they are better, but frankly I still dont think they could hold a candle to some of the speakers being suggested, and I have a hard time believing they are in a "totally different league" to their little brothers. You look upon your amp as the weak link in the system, but I dont agree to be honest.

Also, I dont hold much respect for magazine reviews, but FWIW the M51 achieved more awards than the M53, and several reviews cited it as being a better speaker than its big brother.

I can relate to the positioning thing though, the M51's are tricky little buggers to position as well, and the sound you got from not sitting in the sweet spot was pretty poor IMO.

Anyway, it was not my intention to be drawn into a slanging match with the speakers so I'll leave it at that - indeed if you are happy with them, then thats all that matters, but IMHO I still think your amp could outlast your speakers - I had no idea just how good my little RA-01 could sound with some top class speakers, and if this PM7200 is as good as you lead us all to believe in the past (in which case, why are you changing it?), then it should have no problems with superior speakers.

Edit: As for your observation that the M51's were bright, I simply never found that to be the case, FWIW.

 

I did say that earlier,I recall this was the £1000 killer,and I said it wasn't it was just mag hype like all Marantz

 

Adam, I think you'll find that i never personally claimed that the marantz would slay a £1000 amp,it was a magazine review.I may have claimed it gave some more expensive amps a hard time and was one of the best all rounders at the price. I bought my pm7200 BEFORE any reviews were published and i still think its a great amp. Just because im after more slam and kick doesnt mean i think the marantz is suddenly a crap amp, far from it, its brilliant but after time i just fancy a change. About the whole tweeter thing, the website wont say what model they are exactly,just from appearance they look different, the 53's 1 looks like the 1s used on the 78Se models and the 51's look like the m7 model. They are all microfibre dome tweeters albeit different 1s. Thats like saying B&W and MA+epos all use the same tweeter as they are all metal dome. I have praised the pm7200 to be the bee's knee's in the past and i still think it is, doesnt mean i wont feel the desire to upgrade ever again

Also i had no intention to start a speaker slagging off match, afterall im not the 1 who bought countless pairs of headphones and claimed them to be the best thing since sliced bread 1 day and sell them the next...its just the hobby, when u buy a new product it does have the wow factor initially but after a while you want more.

Ultra

 

Meeeeeeeoooooowwwwww!! :ffrc:

Edit: Sorry, but I dont see why the M51 would use the same tweeter as Mission cheapest speakers, and the M53 would use the same as Missions flagship (apart from the Pilastro). I think its a lot more probable they use the same tweeter.

Nevertheless, if you can PROVE they use different tweeters, then I'll hold my hands up and admit I am wrong. Cant say fairer than that, can we?

Edit 2: Also, if you have a problem with me writing about stuff that I buy, then dont read it, simple as that. With the amount of hype you have given some of the stuff you have bought at the other place, I dont think you are in any position to have a go at me about it, do you? Yes I am a generally very enthusiastic person, guilty as charged there. I notice you didnt ask for advice over there... I wonder why that is?

 

Using the same tweeter doesnt necessarily mean they sound the same - the crossover has a huge part to play too!