Mixing Solid State & Valve Amplification

Is there any merit in having a combination of solid state and valve amplification?

The valve converts often talk about the superior nature of the valve sound, but if you like to play your music loud (as I do) and don't have terribly efficient speakers, it is necessary to have large (and expensive to buy and run) valve amps to provide bottom end grip.

So what about using a solid state amp for the woofers and a valve amp for the mid/treble drivers? I realise that integrating the sound will be an issue, but can it be overcome?

Has anyone tried this and had any success? I have most of the equipment to give it a go except for the valve amp. I currently run a solid state power amp directly from my wadia and then into the speakers which are bi-wireable. Since the wadia has 2 sets of output, it would be possible to drive a separate valve amp and connect this to the mid/treble. I can even dust of my deq2496 to put between the wadia and the solid state amp to provide attenuation (and even a bit of eq'ing in the lower regions).

So if anyone out there has a nice valve power amp that they would be willing to bring along, we could give it a try. Or is it a stupid idea that is destined to fail????

 

It is possible; Titian has a system like this with 200watt valve amps for the mid and treble and a Krell for the stuff below 250Hz.

On the other hand, the DEQ will give you delay so its not a great idea to use it only on one driver, though is the Xover is low enough it might not be too much of an issue and you could try it out. Better to just use a few resistors in the line when you know the attenuation needed.

 

Good point about the delay introduced by the deq, obviously I hadn't thought that one through!

Would it be necessary (or benificial) to have an active xover, or do both amps get the full range? I was thinking about something on a much smaller scale than titian's.

 

What about a valve pre and a ss power, can sound very good,imho.

 

Indeed, that is a more simple and common way to mix the two. If you wanted to do it your way though, it is easy enough provided the input gain of both amps match up. If not, it is simple enough to make the more powerful one (or higher input gain one) match the lower one once you know the necessary attenuation.

 

Hi
I use a Audiovalve Eklipse Pre Amp with a Electrocompaniet 250r power Amp

I am very happy with the sound

regards

 

Good recco. Valve pre and S/S can work real well.
as far as mixing amps the gain of each should be the same and of course there are impedance mismatches.
Very hard to get the bass to sound right unless you use the same amps.I dont know the tech. reason for this,my ears just tell me something is not right.
Tenson,do you have a clue?
rollo

 

Not really, apart from the two drivers sounding slightly different at the Xover point. It would probably work best with a Xover below 300Hz.Titians system sounds great like that!

 

I must admit I was thinking about inserting a valve pre between the wadia and power amp, but two different amps was much more of a challenge (and only an idea)

Does a valve preamp have as much influence on the sound as a valve amp? Its not something that I have ever had the oppertunity to try.

Any suggestions for a secondhand valve preamp. I would prefer to keep the balanced i/c's so something like an Audio Research LS25 springs to mind if I can find one at a good price. Any other ideas?

 

I think the pre plays a major part, AR are I think disappointing and over priced ( over here ) I had a nagra pre which was very neutral, very quiet ,which is imprtant, heard Graham Trickers 'Tron ' preamp yesterday and that was impressive, or if you really want something spectacular try to listen to an ASR Emitter, solid state integrated but it is sublime, doesn't sound like valve or solid state very highly recommended.

 

I have an Eklipse Valve pre too - with Krell FPB Power amp - sounds amazing - however so did the Promitheus passive TVC preamp which I sold on as awaiting super dooper dual mono version. The only thing is because of high DC from some valve preamps some powers - such as Krell (but not in this case) - dont like the combo.

 

I'd reccomend trying the CD player straight into a few valve amps, see if you like them better/worse than the belcanto in your system.

I think you'll find the sound a trade off, but who knows on what side you will fall.

Adding a valve pre doesn't make sense to me at all. Why add something to the signal path you have no need for?

I use a valve pre-amp because I have multiple sources, and my cd player doesn't have a volume control anyway.


NB
A powerful digital amp on the bass and a valve amp on the mid/tweeters is a good idea I think. I'd want that with the works... active crossover etc.

If you're sticking passive I wouldn't bother personally.

 

For a long time I ran my system without a pre - using the volume control on the DAC. Then for a number of reasons I put a pre back in and against what seemed like common sense (youknow the usual why introduce more electronics to the path etc) the system sounded better with a pre. Since then I am convinced of the value of using a pre - think Wadia Meister may have suggested this too at one time. Certainly introducing a tvc pre gave me lots of advantages re the sound - detail at lower volumes - spund stage etc. Ditto - the Eklipse - many Krell power amp owners advise using a valve pre with the Krell power - but Krell advise against tubes - possibly because they don't make a valve pre??? Anyhow, the Eklipse valve introduces a warmth and sweet detail I rather like - but I'll report back on which stays Eklipse or tvc when the unit arrives and I can give it a go.

BTW this Eklipse is a seriously underrated preamp - it sounded better against a few AR preamps - the usual Krell partner, Anubisgrau reccomended it, and as with his suggestion re Sonus Faber Extremas - he was right.

 

The way I see it, the main argument against using no pre-amp and doing it all digitally is that, even if you attenuate at 24bit or higher in the digital domain, you are still not using the full dynamic range of the output stage. It also brings the noise floor up in comparison to using the full output of the source and then attenuating that (and the noise floor) by a passive device before the power amp.

 

One reason that I have not tried using a pre is that to improve the sound it suggests that it must somehow add something to the signal. Is this possible? Wadiameister always use to advise running the wadia direct, but he may have changed his mind

Tenson, I take your point that attenuating in the digital domain you can loose some of the dynamic range, but for serious listening I have the digital volume at 80+, sometimes 99.

I guess the only way to find out is to give it a go. I must admit that I have never heard of the Eklipse pre, but it sounds like it may be worth investigating, thanks.

 

Is maximum 100?

 

.

 

no, 99 is maximum. I adjusted the output to suit the speakers using the internal dip switches

 

I guess the only way to find out is to give it a go. I must admit that I have never heard of the Eklipse pre, but it sounds like it may be worth investigating, thanks.[/QUOTE]


Audio Valve Eklipse - It's one of those great secret gems - it's a marvellous preamp.

Think Wadia mesiter - is that Tony - has changed mind - and i agree with him!

 

Ahh, well if the dip switches can make it go louder, you are still not using the full range of the output device. You may find it sounds a fair bit better with the Wadia output at full potential and using a quality passive pre.