Moerch arm questions

Hello all,

Quick question for those of you experts in Moerch arms and its setup... (Joel?)

I have an UP-4 on a Spacedeck and have been wondering if the bias setting is done properly... Using test records like the HFN one it makes me load the bias an awful lot (so much that the arm is pulled to the side when freestanding!). This can't be right, can it?!

I find that it plays very well with little bias adjustment (Koetsu Rosewood Sig.) but it does not go through the torture tracks very well...

I wonder if you have any experiences on this. Any advice very welcome! Anyone in London that fancies a beer and is good at setting bias on arms is very welcome to visit!!


Also, any thoughts on whether changing the tonearm lead from the stock Moerch rdin interconnect to a silver cable or a vdh for example will yield any improvements?

Thanks for any thoughts, experiences or advice!

:beer:
Jack

 

Are you sure the LP is not worn? The harder torture tracks can wear if you keep trying to track something that won't really, making subsequent items sound like they won't track properly.

PS I førgøt tø say, I have a few free letters før pple without a Scand kbd to copy øøøØØ

 

Hi Jack.

I'm soon to be getting a UP-4 for my Spacedeck (so can't help you at the moment with your query) - is there any way you could post a picture of the arm mount for the UP-4? I have a Spacearm at the moment and just wondered if the mount for the UP-4 is something I could get machined locally (which would be faster and possibly cheaper) as a drop in replacement for the Spacearm mount, or whether it'll be easier sticking with NA doing it.

thanks,

Chris.

 

The one person I know with experience of Koetsu carts says that they won't have any truck with test LPs and you have to tune by ear.

 

Chris,

I haven't got a picture here and I doubt you can see it properly from a picture anyway.

The spacedeck armboard will not need change, all you need is to drop in a collet (black cylinder that adjusts the hole size to the Moerch's arm correct diameter) and that's it. Very easy to do.

Before the Moerch I had a souped-up Rega using a Rega collet (came originally with the deck). All I had to do was slide out the rega collet and slide in the Moerch one. The new collets are made of a synthetic (plastic?) material that supposedely rings less than the metal NAS used to use for the collets.

This is readily available from Les at Walrus. They are quite good value (i think 25 pounds, not 100% sure anymore) so I don't think you need to hassle yourself with building one.

The other thing you will need to do is to adjust the geometry of the armbase. There is a screw under the spacedeck that will allow you to set the distance from the pivot to the centre of the record for the new arm geometry. Coming from a Rega I had to adjust mine. I imagine you may have to at least check yours too.

It is a fantastic arm, I think you will be very pleased with it. It shreads to pieces all other arms I have tried in the past, from souped-up regas, technoarms, some SMEs... YMMV but I think you will be very pleased.

Let me know if you need any more info. Also if you can let me know how you get on with the bias setting, it will be grand!

Cheers,
jack

 

The HFN record is very recent so I would be very (unhappilly!) surprised if it was that worn out already... but it is a good point.

Alan, that is really interesting. Any idea why this would be?
I guess following my instinct of using little bias force (rather than too much) and tune it by ear is a good thing then. It always worries me that I may be stressing the cart or damaging the LPs... well it won't stop me listening!

Thanks for the help,
Jack

 

Thanks for the info, Jack. No worries about the lack of picture - I understand what needs changing from your description.

I'd hoped the collet would be the only bit that needed changing (I'd had a Syrinx arm fitted before the Spacearm and this used a different pod as well) because I want to keep the costs as low as possible, as I'm not sure what gains there are to be had from the swap so hoped it wouldn't be too costly a one.

One of the main reasons I've bought the UP-4, other than all the glowing praise I've read about it, is that I'm hoping it may be slightly better at tracking warped records than the Spacearm - the amount of clearance you get between armtube and record on the Spacearm is minimal, and it only takes the slightest warp to cause problems (I have a Goats lp that is a bit of a ski slope in places which I'd love to hear again).

Out of interest, what colour dot arm tube do you use with the Koetsu? I notice from the Moerch website that they recommend a yellow for them (as they do for my Denon) but there are some people over on the vinyl asylum who use a blue with the Denon and swear by it, saying the extra mass improves the sound a lot.

Thanks again,

Chris.

 

Sorry misread your initial post, appologies, Ben.

 

Hi Chris,

I don't know about the syrinx armpod. Did you have it changed again for the spacearm? I think the spacearm uses the "standard" armpod, and if so this collet is all you need. Just insert it in the hole and off you go!

Last time I checked Les had stock of them so you could just phone him and ask for one.

I have not heard the spacearm so I cannot tell you if you can expect much gain or simply a different presentation. I found an impressive difference coming from the souped-up rega. At all levels.

As for the clearance it may depend on the cartridge you are using. The Moerch is very adjustable, and VTA is very easy to adjust. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with armtube clearance using the koetsu so I would expect you to be fine there. There is quite a bit of leeway at the armbase end to adjust armtube angle and arm height (independently) so you should be absolutely fine.

Different koetsus have different armtube colour recommendations. If you check Moerch's website there is a more up-to-date list (more than the one I got with the arm). Some koetsus (like mine) are recommended on the yellow dot tube, others on the blue. I have not tried blue dots ever but if I see one 2nd hand I might have a go to see if it makes a listenable difference.

Enjoy the arm, the music and let us know how you get on. Setting up will take a little while, there are some fiddly things to do initially (putting silicone in the well, aligning the armpod, overhang, getting used to the weights and how they work) but once you get the hang of it it is quite straightforward.

Any problems I might be able to help.

Cheers,
jack

 

Thanks for the info, Jack. Mine should arrive with me in about 10 days time and looks like this (although I wont have the cartridge in view):

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I'll let you know how I get on, particularly about the anti-skate in case it is of any use to you.

 

Hi Jack,
Sorry to have come so late to this thread!
You have made an excellent choice of arm IMO.
Personally, I would not set the bias (anti-skating, right) using a test record. I set it by eye and ear, and use as little as I can get away with.
This is a unipivot thing, I guess.
Put your cart on a non-revolving record and eyeball it front-on to check the cart is fully upright. Very fine adjustments may be made by turning the counterweights ever-so-slightly clockwise or counter clockwise to get the cart upright in the groove (recheck tracking force after doing this!).
Once you've got that set, play the record while continuing to eyeball the cart. If the cantilever assembly seems like it is being pulled, lay off the bias until it is at ease (this is hard to explain, but you should be able to understand when you do it).
The cantilever assembly on a cart has a suspension that is sensitive to temperature. Check the bias often, as the force required will change through the year!
The other, and hopefully somewhat useful suggestion I have, is to get the counterweights as close to the pivot point as you can. You can get the big weight really, really close and use the smaller weights "outside" for fine micro adjustments, as in this picture of my setup.

This works.
The funky protractor thing also works quite well, but is expensive apparently (it's not mine). http://feickert.com/

 

PS to a couple of other points...
Warping is not problematic with the Morch, as the pivot point is on the plane of the record...
I wouldn't futz with cables etc. Get the cart/arm/table setup right and you will not care.
That said, we installed some gen-u-ine wanky wire on my UP4 yesterday (after much sweating and quite a lot of swearing...). Personally I couldn't tell any difference sonically, but it is most amusing to have a cable with a power switch doodad

 

Well, my UP4 has arrived complete with the correct (hooray!) yellow dot arm tube I need for my cartridge, as well as the used Technics cartridge shown in the photo above and what I think is a used Denon 110. It also came with the stand in the photo above and, judging by it's superb condition, I can only assume the previous owner displayed rather than used it.

It's quite a jigsaw puzzle when you first see it but I think I've figured it out now - just have to wait for the NAS arm collet to arrive and I can give it a try.

Edited to ask: When setting up a secondhand UP4, I assume it will be necessary to re-inject some silicone fluid into the arm - am I right in this thinking, or will the well retain any silicone already there?

 

Hi Joel,

Thank you very much indeed for all your valuable advice!
Sorry I didn't respond earlier, have been travelling.

The way you set your anti-skating makes a LOT of sense. I will give it a go this weekend, and report back soon. It may or may not make much difference to what I hear but at the very least it will put my mind at ease. Thank you!

On the cable front, I will probably experiment with a silver cable from Zanash, in a din to rca configuration. I know that Moerch has changed the cable they send out with their arms so it may be something that can be improved.

Looking at the pictures of the arms in this thread, it is interesting to see that my arm looks just like yours, Joel, but without the spirit level on the base. Is this how it came? I would imagine it is not much older than yours. The stock cable lead that came with it is gray and fairly thin (not the TCI Viper I read comes with newer versions I suspect). Is this the same that came with yours Joel? Or yours, Goomer?

Goomer's arm looks like it has the spring clip on the armrest. Mine didn't and I wish it had it because in the spacedeck I cannot fit the standalone armrest that came with my arm, so the armtube is always only sitting on the base... I tried to contact Moerch to get that part separately but never heard back from them...

So it seems there are differences in detail between our arms, but the main features seem to be the same.

If I manage to find out how to post pics I will post one of my arm when I have it fully recalibrated.

Cheers everyone!
Jack

 

Hi Goomer,

Congratulations on your purchase! I am sure you will love it!
It seems to be in excellent nick, the arm, judging from the picture. Can you tell me what the lead (from the base to the phonostage) looks like? I am trying to find out if my arm's lead is older than the ones they do now or if it is the same.

It is daunting and the instructions, good they are, are brief and may sound a bit cryptic to start with. No doubt you will get it running soon, it just takes a bit of effort but it is well worth it!

Since you got it second hand, and probably taken apart, I would imagine the silicone fluid has been taken out of the well to avoid spilling. There are two places where you need silicone fluid: the pivot well and the armlift well. If you want to be on the safe side, empty both, clean them and add silicone. On the pivot well I would definitely do this. On the armlift you may find it works ok as is so you may not need to change anything.

Silicone fluid comes in a syringe, normally you can get it from Moerch dealers (Walrus sells them, is where I got mine). Other makes can be used but people tend to recommend sticking (pun not intended ) with Moerch's own. The arm's literature should explain how to apply the silicone. Let me know if you need any help though!

Anyway, I hope this helps. Enjoy the setup, it is fun, and remember to prepare and really listen to the first time it plays. I was shocked! Enjoy!!

Jack

 

Hi Jack - thanks for the tips.

The arm lead that came with mine is a bog standard looking black number, with a grey plastic female din plug for the arm base end and a pair of plastic phono plugs at the other (one red and one white) with what is probably gold plated innards. I have acquired a nice Van den Hul D502 arm lead from a pinkfisher, though, which has Tiffany connectors at both ends, this one being the din plug end:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-TIFFA...ryZ48648QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

The phonos have the same machining on the case and are very nice as far as I can tell, although I don't think Tiffany as a brand name exists anymore. I would date my UP4 to the early 1980s I think, as the info leaflet that came with it has some reviews from that period, not that you can really tell by looking at it

I've emailed Moerch direct about the silicone but will speak to Walrus as this'll probably be faster - any ideas how best to clean out the pivot well (I can get access to the arm lifter without trouble)? I was contemplating the little pipe you get a with a can of WD40 and some careful sucking, but would welcome a suggestion which doesn't involve the inevitable taste of silicone my method will result in.

 

Hello Goomer,

Interesting. The arm lead you have is exactly like mine. It sounds pretty good, not sure what it is made of and the plugs look on the cheap side. I am thinking of getting Pete (Zanash) to make me a silver cable DIN to RCA lead... I looked at the cable you got, has very good reputation but I cannot find it anywhere. Saw one on eBay but went, and can't find it elsewhere for sale (the Silver Hybrid). Should be a good one. Let me know what you think of it!

I think you are probably right. Mine is from the late 80's I believe, but looks absolutely identical to yours in every respect, from the cable tags to the armbase and lead. It just doesn't have the clip on the armrest...

I guess this design has not changed much over the years and it must be a great tribute to it that we still love it after all these years!

When I emailed Moerch directly (asking about a blue dot armtube and the clip thingie for my armrest) was greeted with absolute silence... hopefully you will have more luck than me! If you do, let me know maybe I said the wrong thing?

As for cleaning the silicone mine was empty when I got it so I didn't have to do any of that... can't help you there, but if you are going to call Walrus, Les will most probably have a good suggestion for you if you ask him.

Hope this helps, let us know how you are getting on!

Jack

 

The Van den Hul D502 cable can be purchased by the metre here:

http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/default...k/stoneaudio/products/details.asp?product=183

As far as plugs go if you opt to build your own cable, one suggestion I had was using the internals of a mini din socket which you can get from Maplins, although I got the one from a pinkfisher before getting to Maplins to investigate. Cardas do straight female din plugs but I wasn't able to track down a UK source. Another option would be speaking to Johnnie at Audio Origami - he offers a suitable ready made lead at a pretty decent price, I think. There are also some ebay sellers in, from memory, Canada who offer some ready made cables.

I contacted Walrus earlier today who advised not to worry about damping fluid with my yellow dot/Denon combination, saying they didn't think it'd be needed. I will try it undamped and see how it goes, then get source silicone locally if I feel it needs some (too far to go to Walrus personally and they were understandably reluctant to post it due to likely leakages). I've been reading a bit about the damping aspect on the vinyl asylum and there seems to be quite a few who use the UP4 without the silicone.

Now I just need to wait for the collet....

 

No. I put it there. Something slightly silly about the the way the NAS mounting system works is that the arm can be skewed vertically depending on how you tightly you do the mounting screws. Getting the arm perfectly upright isn't quite as important with a unipivot as with other types, but it doesn't hurt either.
Couldn't spot any changes when we changed the bright red cable that came with my arm to the wanky wire. I don't think this is worth futzing with TBH.

 

Goomer,

Thanks for the tips on the wiring. Will be useful no doubt.
How are you getting on with the setup? I bet it is sounding really nice by now.

Interesting what you say about the damping. I will have a read in the asylum, but I am pretty happy with the sound here and I'm using the fluid. But to be fair, I did not try it without damping...

Cheers!
Jack