More HiFi+ snake oil promotion

Aswell as Roy Gregory's amusing defence of his Nordost power cable review we have Paul Messenger waxing lyrical about the various cables and tweaks from Vertex AQ

See http://www.vertexaq.com/ for full details of the oleaginous sperpent secretions

Amongst their products are speaker cables which have large-ish aluminium box in the middle which has no electronics in it but it's purpose is merely to stop vibrations moving along the cable...

They really are having a laugh now. The hordes of people who wrote in about the power cable review are going to be spluttering their pipe all over their slippers over this one

PM only reviewed them because he'd "heard" the products at the Heathrow show. As it happens, that was a room I spent some time in and was IMO, the best sounding room at the show but that was down to the SimAudio CDP and amp + Perigee speakers and not some of the most bizarre tweakery yet unleashed on the audiophile scene.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm getting more sceptical about all this cable BS with every passing day

Michael.

 

I have indeed. What happen?

 

I'm suspecting you have a bone to pick with Mr. Gregory's mag, Michael , but rightly so. I'm a subscriber, and I've found that RG's use of superlatives grows in every issue, out of all proportion with what we really know is the true development curve of the industry. With every new copy that lands on my doormat, rest assured there will be a new 'best product ever' somewhere - this issue it's a turntable, last issue it was some laughably bad mains leads (they're not even shielded...) and Kuzma's parallel tracker which took 'best ever' honours.

RG is really shooting himself in the foot - the mag started out so well IMO, but has decended (or just become more obvious about it) into another series of advertisers' articles, Nordost being the most predominant, closely followed by Naim. What gets me most though is how RG started out by slating other mags, especially What Hi-Fi?, for their bullshit approach. It seems as though there is a trap in audio journalism from which few can escape...

Some of it still manages to hold interest, and the music section is always worth reading, but my subscription won't get renewed...shame really.

 

Micheal,

You do realise that John Cheadle (one of our forum members) is heavily involved in these products.

Perhaps John would like to add some comments. Although given the amount of antagonism that is being seen on this forum lately when it comes to cables, i'd be surprised if he bothers.

 

Very strong feelings to be sure (Id disagree with antagonism though) - Im pleased zerogain can tolerate for AND against.

As Ive said before, many cabling products really shoot themselves in the foot with their price tag IMO.

Given the fact that a cable is a piece of cable (albeit with a fancy dialectic, I can see no reason why even the most expensive should be the wrong side of 400... can anyone? this is my bugbear with this sector of the market.

RG - to me he sells out every time I read a copy of ''audiophile candy'' magazine. How can anybody call themselves a hifi journalist and write reccomendations for products in the hifi equivelant of an argos catalogue?!... and I'd agree he goes way OTT in all his reviews.....

 

I was just trying to come up with a fancy word, I though it was quite good for 7:15 in the morning

 

Interesting comments.

I am replying to this as a writer for Plus but not as Roys representative on this thread.

I don't believe there is any advertiser bias in Plus. Certainly isn't in any of my reviews, admittedly I don't write as many as Roy but knowing him I can't believe the accusation that he is writing in the pocket of a manufacturer. When I choose to review a product it is not because they are buying or have promised to buy advertising but because I have heard or heard about the product and fancy trying it at home. Somebody above implied that Naim pay for their reviews with advertising, not true Naim have not advertised in Plus for several issues. Roy is a big fan of Nordost, and? We find many people on thi forum banging on and on about there wonder product of choice, and? In my opinion Roy really believes in the statements he makes about products, maybe his style of writing upsets you a bit that is personnal but if you want to accuse him of being dishonest make the claim direct and in writing.

Regards

Jason

PS Bottleneck, what do you mean by "argos catalogue"? Last time I looked the photography and paper were better than that ;->

 

As cable has to be made in runs of several kilometers to make it even vaguely viable, I cant imagine many cables, even the fanciest of them costing more than say £2.00 a meter to actually make.

 

Perhaps the Nordost stuff isn't made in huge lengths, therefore it isn't "viable", therefore it is expensive? Just a thought

Cheers

Jason

 

Not consciously perhaps. But take a measured look at how the magazine's developed. It's barely worth reading nowadays.

-- Ian

 

I agree that there seems to be a fading of any sort of scientific explaination for a products performance in favour of hyperbolic language about how amazing it is. I would suggest that Roy has a very different stlye of writing to most of us, that is to say he really emphasises differences. If particular components really were as night and day as he suggests, we would be progressing a lot faster along the development curve than in reality we are. Whilst I disagree with the way he writes, it is his personal style. I hope anyone would demo the product in question before purchasing, and if they didn't feel it was worth the asking price, wouldn't buy it. At the risk of making an untenable link here, this stuff costs so much money that it can only be afforded by the relatively wealthy. They tend to be the sort of people who aren't likely to plonk down a lot of money for something unless its worth has been proven (exception to this rule is male posturing, the reason anyone buys a Bentley instead of a Mercedes).
Anyhow, I enjoy reading the magazine for its pictures, but am getting tired of the flowery prose used in many of the reviews. It won't stop me buying the mag - the outlay isn't that much for the long-term reading pleasure, but I'm not sure I'd refer to the reviews when considering purchasing something - I don't feel they give me enough of a feel for the sonic characteristics of a product, merely tell me how wonderful it is and that it's better than anything else I might have previously brought.
Simon

 

I don't see that tbh. The biggest problem + faces is finding enough interesting gear that is good enough, not whether they will advertise in the pages.

For everyone making a negative statement in one direction there is somebody else saying the exact oposite. I still think + is the best magazine from the UK so ner (then again that isn't saying much).

I will point Roy at this thread, should be interesting to see if I can hear the cursing from 100 miles away ;->

Cheers

Jason

 

Not wishing to be rude, but you wouldn't would you, since you work for it!

RG's reviews are getting more hyperbolic by the issue IMO, and are increasingly focused on a handful of companies who also seem to be regular advertisers. Even when he isn't reviewing them, Nordost cables seem to get mentioned all over the place. I've been reading it since issue 1, and still subscribe, and my honest view is that it's going downhill. It's a shame he writes so much for each issue, because I rarely bother to read his stuff. Put Paul Messenger in charge for a few issues, I think RG needs a break.

-- Ian

 

>>> Not wishing to be rude, but you wouldn't would you, since you work for it!

Only part time and I objectively don't believe that there is a link. But I think it is clear we will never agree on that.


>>> RG's reviews are getting more hyperbolic by the issue IMO, and are increasingly focused on a handful of companies who also seem to be regular advertisers.

The handful of companies thing is a bit harsh and many people take adverts when a product is reviewed. I guess this could be seen as bias inducing but I will use Naim as a good example that helps to show this isn't happening, certainly not as much as you imply.


>>> Even when he isn't reviewing them, Nordost cables seem to
get mentioned all over the place.

Many people use them including the reviewers and they are mentioning the rest of the system context. I have been criticised for not doing this before, no-win situation?


>>> I've been reading it since issue 1, and still subscribe, and my honest view is that it's going downhill. It's a shame he writes so much for each issue, because I rarely bother to read his stuff.

Please send these sentiments to the letters address. I think it is important to feed your feelings back. A constructive criticsm will be well received.


Cheers

Jason

 

I thought about this, but then I thought a letter that's basically saying, Dear Editor, I quite like the articles in your magazine provided, in general, they're written by somebody other than you, wouldn't go down too well...

I think a large part of my dissatisfaction is that RG is moving ever further down the tweaky cables et al route, and unfortunately, given how much he writes in the average issue, that emphasis affects the whole magazine. It doesn't help that most recent issues have had major reviews of various bits of snake oil, it seems to have upset the balance a bit IMO. A couple of issues not mentioning "cable looms" (a hideous phrase) might help.

He also really needs a sub-editor. Poor grammar and spelling annoy me intensely, I'm old-fashioned like that, and, like most journalists, RG isn't the best sub (no doubt he'd agree).

Stereophile has a similar tone nowadays, but at least they now employ Art Dudley, who offers an entertaining down-to-earthness. Maybe HiFi+ needs its own Art Dudley.

-- Ian

 

Perphaps cj or lawrie would be a good choice here ?

 

Editing RG

If I was his sub, most of his articles would read:

"This is by far the best <insert expensive box here> I have ever heard, but I have little idea how to tell you about it coherently."

 

If I was his sub the magazine would be about three pages long (excluding the all-important ads ).
I've only read one edition of The Plush, and in all honesty, if you're going to do audio porn, do it properly.

 

Jason - Can you also point him at the previous thread 'Roy Gregory has lost the plot this time... ' about Nordost cables. I think it would be great to get his feedback to those points - but only if we can all express ourselves respectfully - there are plenty of valid points to be made but they will be dismissed if the tone descends... On that thread, there were suggestions of a forum blind test - maybe that's something he would be interested in covering, given that he's also published some sceptical letters.

I often get HF+, I like the diversity / obscurity of the kit reviewed and I like the music reviews. I do however agree that the hyperbole is offputting.

 

At the end of the day a forum like this provides things a hardcopy, full-colour magazine, which depends on advertising to make a profit, cannot provide.

This doesn't mean each medium is either perfect or fully flawed, but I think many on this forum would agree this medium (ie. the forum) is considerably more helpful in spawning new ideas, sounding out opinions, getting hold of diverse peer opinion, etc.

Equally many people like to see the world in simple, easy to understand terms. They like the idea of "better" vs "worse", in print, so they can just get on with believing this or that without all the fuss of opinion and counter opinion - reading the debate just takes up so much of their time! - what the f**k? its their money.

Its hard to see how any magazine could compete to give such a self-balancing end result as zerogain et al, however Hi-Fi+ does look better on ones coffee table (incidentally I dont own a coffee table).

This isn't however an excuse for lazy journalism, but lets face it there are only so many superlatives. Also would anyone buy Hi-Fi+ if each edition admitted things hadnt really progressed much since the last?