More Vinyl Newbie questions

Zanash - the MC3 is a high output MC - 3.3mV. pretty close to the 520's 3mV.

 

Expensive in the context of a £200 turntable/arm combo...

Given grossly inappropriate tracking weight seems to have been eliminated I reckon the arm needs looking at. 'Stiff' carts rattling the bearings, whereas the 'soft' one doesn't.

Paul

 

Seriously Paul, the arm should be perfectly capable with these carts - if they are rattling the bearings then the bearings are loose and need adjusting - if the bearings are loose I'd still expect some issues (though maybe not as bad) even with the more compliant suspension on the 520. Whilst the MC15 and MC3 do have lower compliance they are in the medium range (14 µm/mN and 13 µm/mN respectively against the 520's 25 µm/mN). One wouldn't describe them as low compliance like some of your exotic MCs (as low as 5 µm/mN in some cases).

Pro-Ject decks tend to come with a cart - the cart they come with is usually much lower in the price range than the arm that carries it is capable of doing justice to.

PS. The bearings in the Xpression's arm are exactly the same bearings as on the arm the Xperience ships with - pre fitted with an Ortofon Rondo Red MC.

 

duh.........I'll just sit back and read !

 

Okay, Alan's MC15 and the box fresh MC3 arrived in the post this morning.

A quick visual inspection under the magnifier shows nothing untoward - no twisted or cracked cantilevers - and the MC15 looks surprisingly clean for a second hand cart - usually there's a lot more dust and stuff up where the cantilever joins the body.

MC3 on an RB250/Spacdeck into a Lehmann Black Cube.

OKay I don't have the HFN test record (though mebbe I should get it). I have always used the venerable Shure Era III Audio Obstacle Course record for testing tracking - the last three tracks contain in order - musical bells which is a good test of high frequency tracking, a sibilance test (some brazilian lady singing with lots of esses) and the killer which is the low frequency tracking Bass drum test on the inner track (all tracks are repeated 5 times at reference level, +6, +8, +10 and +12db). The MC3 passes the bells and esses up to +10 and fail at +12 - not brilliant but acceptable(ish), but it fails the low freq. bass drum quite miserably, getting the first hint of a crack at level three of the final test and just sounding like a graunch at level 4 and 5.

The tracking ability of the cart is marginal at best. What I don't know is if this is normal (I sincerely doubt it) as I've never had an MC3 in my stickies - This particular example is the worst tracking new cart I've ever run through the tracking test though. Even worse than the NAS Tracer 1 (and I thought that took some beating).

On music I managed to trip it up with Green Day's American Idiot and a Deutsche Gramaphon/Karl Bohm/Vienna Philharmonic Beethoven's 5th.

We'll wait until I've run the MC15 through its paces, but currently I'm leaning toward the slightly improbable, but neverthless possible scenario that Alan had a duff MC15 (it was 2nd hand after all) and then was sent a duff from new MC3 by me.

It is possible that the MC3 in general is a crock - but I find that hard to believe to be honest - I'm going to have a word with the rep and get it replaced and see how the replacement fairs.

Got to go and keep my customers happy now, but will try the MC15 later and report back.

 

So the good news is that it seems the problem wasn't down to user error. Very glad of that

 

I never had any issues with the MC3 when I had one. I can only presume it's a crock!

 

Okay, well the MC15 didn't struggle like the MC3 did.

It cleared most of tracking tests without trouble - a touch of sibilance on the +12db sibilance test and a hint of breakup on the loudest bass drum test (there aren't that many carts which don't though tbh). Seems okay so far. Haven't tried much in the way of real music yet though.

Curiouser and curiouser. I shall play some more this evening.

 

Okay, the MC15 with real world music - coped reasonably well with the test tracks - but it tripped up on both the beethoven and the Green Day - not as badly as the MC3 - no gross distortion, but definitely there - sounded closer to the sound of record wear rather than the obvious mistracking from the MC3.

Also when its actually on the record the cantilever looks a bit er, upright. Dunno if its taken a knock - looks staright from the front though.

Conclusions?

a) The MC3 was duff from the off and is going back

b) The MC15 is I suspect worn out

c) I need to get some more test records and mebbe a microscope I saw once a neat microscope which plugged into your PC via one of the USB ports and displayed on screen - quite cheap too, but I forget where - anyone seen one of those?

PS. Actually a couple of more conclusions

d) as my days as an IT tech. should have taught me - unlikely possibilities do happen (and can cause havoc with diagnosis when you assume something is just too coincidental)

e) the simplest answer is often the correct one

 

Sid and Coke had one of those microscope thingies, he took some fabulous pictures of records before and after cleaning with it IIRC

 

Thanks, I shall ask him. That may be where I remember it from.

Had another close look at the MC15. The cantilever has definitely been bent downward at some point - there is a little kink in the tube, just where it enters the body - this is why a decent microsocope would be useful - couldn't see it easily with the little handheld job at x10 but can see it at x30 (problem with x30 is on a handheld thing its almost impossible to use).

 

The microscope was an Intel product. Now new and improved as the 'Digital Blue QX5'. Less than £70.

Paul

 

Paul, yer a star. I'll order one on the morrow. Time now for a nice bath and then to bed.

Night oll.