My feelings about the Heathrow show

Tesco are selling the Dalmore under their own label of Glen Foyle. At £15 it's a snip. But if you want a serious whisky then try either the Ledaig or the Clynelish.

 

Hmmm...you yourself once said:

http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showpost.php?p=73514&postcount=4

How come (without hearing it) you are able to judge whether or not 3DSonics equipment can't do the same (turn bad recordings into good'uns)?

 

Indeed, and its a good thing that disti's are still investing in this industry, plus ultimately these shows (however the sound quality ends up) are still a great way of getting the systems to the masses. I must admit after seeing the 47 labs gear at Max last year I was stumped at the casing quality (even wondered if this stuff would pass any CE mark!) - but it did sound good and piqued a lot of interest.

On the downside I saw Usher again this year and had a chat with Paul Chen - they still dont have any distribution. This is another room which was very good (especially given the total system cost of approx £3.5K) - I personaly think this is a more important brand for the industry. If you get people involved with good HiFi even at the bottom rung, you will feed the industry thro the ages. Of course as we (the great unwashed audiophiles) get older we (on the whole) spend more on the things we enjoy.

So John - any chance of picking up Usher??? Just think of all the free advertising they do for themselves too!
bst rgds //craig

 

I'd certainly agree with that!

The problem seems to be the attention lavished on the highend designed to appeal to the hardened hifi nut who is likely to be over 40.

We need more systems sub £1K that make the students want to get into seperates - something that offers them more than the usual AV setup. China and the far east seems the only possible source of equipment able to achieve this IMO.

 

I trust we'll get down to some 'serious' listening when I make the long trip North.

 

Well the collections only 22 bottles but I hope that will suffice.

 

I can take a hint. I'll stop off at the offy en-route.

 

I can't, but it seems highly unlikely given that he has designed-in a degree of inaccuracy regarding the performance of the speakers. The reason Mana seems to make previously unlistenable stuff very engaging, is that it enables the gear to separate very complex passages which previously sounded like a mush.

 

Titian,

That was a very good and objective write-up, IMO. I share your sentiments about the Unison Research Unico set-up as I also heard the same set-up at a hifi show across the U.K. waters in 2003 and felt the same about the system's sound considering it's comparatively low price. The worst sounding room at that 2003 show was one in which the system was being fronted by a mega DCS system. I can't remember the amps or speakers but the sound coming from the system was postively digital sounding and highly fatiguing. That was my first introduction to DCS stuff. Another dissapointment was a system containing Wadia transport & DAC, Mark Levinson pre & mono block amplification and Wilson Watt Puppy 7 speakers. On this set-up, I suspect that the Mark Levinson amps were the culprits as whatever system I've heard them in (in or outside of hifi shows), they've 'killed' the music. The Unico set-up made more engaging music to my ears than that lot. The Chord room was no better. However, the best and most musical room for me at that show was the Rega room with the Rega P9 turntable at the controls, full Rega pre & power amps and Totem speakers (I think). I'm sure you'll agree that Rega is not synonimous with the high-end but that room made the best music and every one that visited it agreed.

The question is: if the Unico and Regas of this world can cope in hotel rooms which are notorious for having bad room acoustics, why not the more expensive stuff? Is it just a question of poor set-up by the distributors/dealers or is it just a case that much more expensive high-end gear are more sensitive to room acoustics than lower priced alternatives? Personally, I think that if exhibitors are hoping to drum-up more business by playing their high-end systems at these shows, then the reverse could be happening as there are potential customers who could be negatively influenced based on what they heard at a show (although a show is not the best place to judge a system). I am now beginning to think that hifi shows are more of an eye-candy event than a musical entertainment event and in many cases, I think a static display would serve just as well.



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

Hi Lawrie,
in the fact my write-up was very subjective.

Good point that about the sensitiveness of hifi-systems to cope with different acoustic conditions. I believe in fact that there are systems which are much less sensitive then others but that has less to do with the price.
To tell the truth, most of the times I went to hear demos at dealer's places, the acoustics didn't seem to be much better than at Heathrow. More precisely, the low ends were better yes but not the mid to high frequencies.
For me Hifi-showa aren't eye-candy event. When you can take your time for it, it can be really very enjoyable. This is the same for everything. If you do something just quickly, superficially (maybe) and with lots of prejudices very rarely you will also enjoy it.
For the first (maybe second) time I really enjoyed a show. I heard a lot of systems I never given time to listen to, I heard some very nice music which I didn't know (mostly stuff out of my genre) with a good enjoyable sound and I saw a few faces which I hardly see. What can I ask more?

 

Hi,

I want to avoid charges of self promotion, but this I cannot pass up....

I can say (from listening and designing) that 3D Sonics gear does not turn a bad recording into a good one. One thing it CAN do in my experience though is to make more sense, musically, out of bad or difficult recordings that some other gear using more conventional approaches.

A good example is a live recording of the "Chicago Transit Authority" issued as "Chicago - Beginnings". This recording is very bad in terms of tonal balanced, has zero imaging and is so mushy that on most systems I tried it on most of the performance just turs to some amorphous mush. Really good systems (and I have found that such invariably use uncommon technologies in key areas) actually manage to separate the different musical strands from the general mush and make the recording to me at least enjoyable, on the musical merit.

I do not design in deliberate inaccuracies, but I am equally not overly concerend with "accuracy", "neutrality" and of these other right brain terms. I'm more of the "it ain't mean a thing if ain't got that swing" sort. I value communicativeness, emotion and the "experience factor" more than any particular cerebral view of "accuracy".

Yes, that is the Mana Effect but also the "C37 Effect" and the result of some of the other approaches I take in putting together a system (for myself). And what 3D Sonics actually means for me is that it is gear I'm happy to live with for myself.

Ciao T

 

A quick impression of a number of demos.

Naim The SL2 room was pretty good. Possible room problems in the 5x room, sounding rather weak
TacT Luv'ed it. Heard them before and was impressed. Would like to hear what these amps can do in the context of my Linn system
47Labs/Konus Probably the most detailed and tactile sounding demo in the whole show. However my Linn system could out-syncopate it
Bel Canto/Audiovector I had high expectations from Bel Canto, but this being my first full listen to a Bel Canto system was a bit of a disappointment - sounded rather unremarkble. Either it's not for me, or the setup was below par
Audio Research/Wilson Demonstrated how to engineer in seamlessness and engineer out the music
Metropolis Music/Lumley Great loudspeakers, fantastic presence and musicality
NEAT Very atmospheric and responsive AV system playing music DVDs.
Chord/Dynaudio "Dire Ear"
EAR Soft and very "brown" sounding (aherm)
Exposure/Vandersteen Wow, excellent sound! Very communicative and probably the system with the best syncopation in the whole show.

Andrew

 

My point, which is now becoming rather laboured, is that the "swing", "experience factor" (huh?) or whatever IS ALL ON THE RECORDING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

So with an accurate system, you will get all of these things. If you don't get them, the replay can't possibly be thought of as accurate.

At least we agree about something. Mind you, try telling that to the great unwashed here. They just don't like the idea one little bit.

 

Hi,

Hmm. Then possibly your definition of "accuracy" matches my personal one, not that commonly applied in High End Audio (and by some recording engineers).

I suspect we would agree about a lot, if we can get past the semantics.

Can't be helped. Somethings you have to actually experience. If you cannot morally afford a sufficiently open mind than you will never try new things and will never know. Worse things happen in this world.

Ciao T

 

Yes, I think that a lot of people think that accurate = "etched/clinical/uninvolving", which music most certainly is not (usually!).

 

Hi,

It certainly seems to be the colloquial usage, along with other such blunders as assuming an anarchist is a molotov cocktail throwing balaclava wearing hooligan and that having an elective franchise equals democracy.

I personally prefer the literal meaning in use to the colloquial, but it seems to result in more misunderstandings than the other way around.

Ciao T

 

A comical moment for me (besides being given £10 for the AVtech interview!) was watching Tim de Paravicini on his hands and knees trying to prop up the table in his room with some sorbothane dampers!!
The result, with Bob Marley playing on the turntable at the time, was a lot of jumpy Reggae! There was something odd going on with the speed stability as well!

 

Hi T,

'gear I'm happy to live with for myself' ...

I seem to remember that it wasn't so long ago that, if the speakers weren't as large as a Sherman tank, they wouldn't be fit for anything other than your kitchen - mine would be ok for your bathroom, I recall.

I take it that your relationship with your lovely lady is still going well then.

Seriously, it's nice to see you on the ZG forum. Also good to see you and The Devil playing so nicely together.

 

Steve,

I still like them a lot bigger than what I use now, but I GET BY. I now get 95db/2.83V from the main Drivers and as I am prototyping the SE Version which has different drivers I'm now at 98db/2.83V/1m and with a good SPL ceiling. Also, 3 1/2' by 2' frontal area is not what most people call small.... ;-)

Still, something a little less compromised with a pair of active 24" Woofers (one sealed and one as one dipole) with around 2KW Amplification on board and a 12....15" Coax (maybe Volt's radial one) plus Supertweeter may very well be ready for prime time next years show.

Yes. It beats the heck out of me why she would be in love with me and hang about but she does....

Ciao T

 

All this debate just goes to show one mans meat etc,etc, how anybody could make an informed judgement on the sound of a paticular system with boom boom shake the room movies on one side and oompah/acordion/jazz coming from all other sides is beyond me, almost every room had some highbrow jazz drifting out of the speakers left me thinking they will be ok when thev'e tuned up, there again I'm just a thick geordie boy, I thought the Art Audio room made the best of less than perfect conditions, and also had one of the most varied and interesting tastes in demo music, anybody who thought that this system sounded "flat" needs to get a friend to give them a good hard kick in the bollocks to dislodge the wax from thier ears.