Naim Prototype DAC at Bristol

"Musical" from the standpoint of wanting to listen to the product's output for long periods of time as opposed to "harsh" which makes me want to do something other than listen to the product's output.

 

That's that one cleared up, then. The "Naim sound" is musical, folks. I've been listening with Naim hi-fi for 20 years, and never knew that.

 

Are we in agreement for the first time or are you thumbing your nose at me once again? ;-)

If I'm getting the thumb, please describe the difference in the sound of Naim vs any other brand?

 

I have no idea what "musical" means in the context of hi-fi equipment. I think a lot of anti-Naim trolling goes on with the "harsh" remarks. I can't describe a "Naim sound" because there isn't one which is consistent across all Naim products as far as I can tell.

I think JV's remarks which you quoted are what poker players call "a defensive bet". Pretty vague stuff, but enough to put the faithful off the CD12 or Lingo.

 

In your words, there isn't a "Naim Sound." By that statement, do you mean Naim is accurate or you are unable to accurately describe the difference you hear?

I don't believe his statements we made to put anyone off non-Naim gear. Sort of pointless when your audience is mostly die-hard naim and linn fans. I think it was his best guess combined with measurements explaining what many reported hearing and a warning to level the playing field with a known issue before putting money down--nothing more.

 

I think the 52 is very accurate, the 82 a lot less so and a bit "edgy", 102 fuzzy, 32 & 62 "nice". Naim CDPs are pretty much of a muchness, as with any CD player. Differences are small compared with vinyl upgrades.

Naim speakers are a subject in themselves.

Those Naim fans usually had Linn decks, and Naim had the Aro and Armageddon, which were direct Ekos/Lingo competitors. The last thing Naim wanted was for Naim users to stray, like I have. I haven't bought anything from them in about 10 years.

 

We differ then regarding the "Naim Sound." Overall, I find they share a family sound though I'd be hard-pressed to describe it. TBH, I find words totally inadequate to describe any hifi's sound and why I've always found reviews completely useless.

Naim wouldn't want their customers to stray much like any other business that wishes to succeed. FWIW, Naim got wind of the CD12 problem from customers AFAICT from forum posts. Can't recall about the Lingo other than I noticed the problem with mine and brand X cd players before I got back into Naim and before a Naim forum of any sort existed.

 

There's no problem with the CD12, Dave. There was also no problem with the Lingo. It was all internet hype/negative marketing originating from the great marketing machine in Salisbury. I used to have a Lingo, and did all the silly unplugging thing as recommended. No effect whatsoever.

 

I'm somewhat at a loss to explain your "muchness" comment regarding Naim CD players as well. We have a very different value scale I suppose.

My CD3.5 shares a family resemblance sonically to my CDS1 and 2 but that's where it ends. As good as the 3.5 is, it's not a substitute for the better models.

 

Sorry but different results here. Perhaps ESP or mind control since I and others experienced the same independently and prior to the forum's existence?

 

Any CD player will resemble a CDS1. We possibly do have a very different value scale.

You ought to hear a Linn DS, btw. Linn are right, it's better than any CD player. Expensive, though.

 

I find that rather surprising, but there you go. The Lingo had no effect on my Naim 52/135 amplifier, and I was listening intently for one. The CD12 has no effect on my 52.

You have to admit that it would suit Naim's marketing objectives perfectly if their main rival's equipment buggered up the Naim amps in some mysterious manner. And hey presto! it did. On dit.

 

We've discussed this before--get rid of the resonating angle iron and your system will reveal differences;-)

I'll probably check out a DS at some point just to see what all the noise is about. Frankly, I have no desire to change anything(except for a 52;-)

 

But (and a big BUT), Naim suggested a fix which was to unplug the CD12 before comparing--not "do not buy the CD12 because a CDS2 is better."

 

Get a 52, and you might have a system where you don't need to imagine infinitesimal differences, which aren't actually there but which you can discuss anyway ad nauseam on the Naim Forum, any more;-)

 

Damn straight...except I don't discuss much of anything on the Naim forum any more;-)

 

So, er, by all means buy a CD12, but don't plug it into the mains? Not exactly an enticing prospect, having spent £12k on one.

FWIW, my CD12/CDS2 comparisons have been done with the non-playing CDP unplugged because I don't have enough mains outlets to have both plugged in at the same time.

 

Like I said...get rid of the angle iron.

 

You could always get me on "warm up". If the CDS2 is unplugged, it needs about three millennia of "warm up" before "it comes on song".

The Naim Forum is/was excruciating.

 

I don't need to get you on warmup. Unplug both between comparisons to level the playing field. Both will stand on their own "cold" or the one that doesn't deserves what it gets IMO.

I enjoyed the original forum with my now-banned chums. The current one is either too trying or perhaps it's just me. I go there now solely for tuning tips from the odd staff post or to occasionally aggrevate a ricer with a DJ TT plugged into high-performance gear.

P.S. "warmup" on my CDS2/CDPS might be 4-5 days--at least that's what I'm imagining;-)