naim/valves

I thuoght I'd throw out a few feelers related to another thread re amplification, to see what peolpe think/talk around it.......not meaning to tread on zanash's toes (I know hes currently working on stuff for me)......

Whats a good start(recommendation) with valve amps......at what £?

Union Unico gets good mag reviews but will it drive modern speaker loads?

kit so far;

marantz 5004 v.modded
ruark sceptres.... at the moment



thanks

David

 

Hello David,

The Unison Research Unico is a nice amp.

Powerful and stable enough to drive a wide range of speakers.
Its sonic character is quite smooth.
(a bit too smooth/laid-back to my taste, wherefor I prefered my old Nait-2. After comparison, I found my Naim sounded a bit more open/transparent, forward and detailed)

The Unison Unico I heard had the standard valves though.
It might improve when using better quality valves.
(which shouldn't have to cost a fortune)

regards,
Alco

 

thankyou...

 

Unico have a sort of QC problem.... many of them needs to be checked for different reasons.

 

if you want unison you will often find ex-dem for sale at 'ukd' the importers website.


"which valve amp" is a bit like which speakers, ... you know - power requirements, budget, new/sec hand/DIY etc

 

let say 50-100w/channel (negotiable), £500-1000 (?)s/h probably (not DIY yet)

 

I would second the QC problems report. I have heard that there have been higher than expected reliability/performance problems and that there were many revisions to the amp, thus performance can vary even between what is nominally the same model of amp! I have no personal experience of this, but I was told this by a trade source who I have no reason to doubt and who has no obvious axe to grind.

 

Prima Luna seem to be popular, and the Unison's always seem to get good reviews. Haven't heard any of them though. Jim.

 

David, with 50w-100w in your budget, you will be looking at a bank of 4-8 EL34, 6550 or KT88.

They are similar valves.

You tend to get roughly 40w from 4, 80w from 8.

If you see different figures, then it's not all run in class A.

For example, I had a Conrad Johnson Premier 11a (a nice power amp by the way) which is a little out of budget at about £1,100-£1300 second hand (no pre-amp , a straight pwr amp). This has 4 x 6550, and provided 80w.

Excluding the weird wacky and wonderful, you'll get a better purity of tone (IMO) with single ended amps, but not the power you're after.

You could look out for a second hand WAD 6550 amp, Prima Luna, you might be able to get a bewitched. There are many.

Some kit amplifiers can be ordered pre-built by the factory.

I'm a big fan of the brand below.

Point to point wiring, and open airy boxes allow for ease of upgrading capacitors and resistors at a later date. This makes a real difference to sound quality.

The example below is available as a pre-built kit, with a choice of componentry.

I have a pre-amp by this company, and rate it very highly.

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_ella.htm

Take into account the very good $ to £ currency rate at the moment, and you have excellent value for money.

If you decide on this particular amp, I would reccomend going straight for the highest spec, it will prove cheaper in the long run..

 

sounds useful info......thanks v.much

 

I've really been enjoying my Copland CTA-401 in the year or so that I've had it. A bit less power than you specify (30wpc) but a really nice amp, great build quality and feel as well. There's one on ebay at the mo' from 'The Emporium'.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=270074352889&rd=1&rd=1

 

thanks...

Intersting you should say 30wpc.

One reason why I chose a Naim 140 was becaus it avoids the issues of compatabilty with modern speaker loads......it was going to be able to drive most stuff.

Would 30 wpc be enough........potentailly i'm looking to floorstanders in the future?

 

I haven't had an amplifier with over 30wpc for about 7 years and never had a problem with a lack of power, but I suppose if you have a pair of speakers in mind that like more power then it's something you'll need to take into account. I use fairly efficient Tannoys with the Copland, but have also tried LS3/5A's and some Kef 104AB's with good results.

 

Then perhpts its not the fator i thought it was...

This time last year i had a mission cyrus 1.... =i think about 25w. A mate said it was not going to drive modern speakers. He was saying that amps have got more and more powerfull over the last ten years or so 50-75wpc quite the norm......and speakers have been buiilt around this.

His point, then, was that an amp with a modest out put will require careful matching with low spker impedance......I think he mentioned 86 or 89 db (?)....sorry i haven' t properly got my head around the technicalities yet

I ve been a bit sceptical about valves for that reason, as many see to have a modest output, especially as I would be aiming at the the cheaper end of the market.

 

There are others on this forum with much greater knowledge and experience of speaker/amp matching than me, and I would agree that any amp requires careful matching with speakers (and vice versa), but I'm pretty sure that having only 30wpc to play with shouldn't restrict your options too much.

That said, there are plenty of great amps out there with a bit more oomph if you need it!

 

It's easy to get caught up in amplifier power figures , but they
only tell half a story , transformer and capacitor size play an
important part , Naim and Rega ( to name just two ) produce
amps with modest outputs that will drive almost any speaker .

Same with valves , I have a 18w valve amp and it drives my
88dB 4 ohm speakers perfectly .

 

David - do you intend to keep the Ruark speakers?

Going the wrong way power-wise (but the right way quality-wise!) is the Canary 608LV available at Definitive Audio http://www.definitiveaudio.co.uk/stuff.htm

This has been in stock for a while, and may be something he would discount further.

If you're changing your speakers, you could do an awful lot worse than pairing the Canary with some ex-dem/used Living Voice auditoriums from Definitive. I'm sure he'd cut you a deal.

A pair of Quad ESL57's would be just the ticket too, also available from the emporium (like the Copland amp above).

Some AUdionote speakers would go very nicely with these valve amps too.

If you're asking what I'd get with a limited budget..

quad esl57
the best 845 amp I could find
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EMPORIUM-BEAS...57QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3280QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


later on, I'd save up for the best sub I could afford - a Velodyne direct drive or Revel if you're ever able.

 

I agree the Emporium Beast is a very sweet sounding amp one of the best 211 amps I have heard. However They can have very noisy transformers. Check first. Most of the problem is solved by tightening the bolt holding the Mains transformer.

 

thanks for this gentlemen.

Input of this nature from fellow enthusiasts is just so valuable.

No, bottleneck, I m not sure as i do regard the ruarks as being the final answer. i got to listen to my brothers spender s5s over xmas.......they did sound quite good.

Frankly (might well be wrong) I felt his system (mf xray v/x150) wasn't doing much that mine isn't ......except it WAS sound staging better tham mine....something I think we'll redress with tyhe addition of a box of tricks a la zanash. + (cheers Isaac) I have behringer deq to hook up as well.

There was also a little more bass,so I 'm certainlly thinking of a pair of floorstanders for the future but have to be little careful as im limited for space. My living room isn't enormous. This one'll have to wait (together with the valves) ......as i'm off with a bust back as we speak!

Interesting idea though.

thanks very much,



David

 

the plot obviously thickens...