Need more power

You know I have 2 pairs of satellites over each other plus 2 subs.
While the subs are driven by a 300W Krell, the satellites are driven by two mono tube amplifiers of 200W each at 4 ohms.
When listening to music very loudly, one monoblock clips / distorts a bit.
Of course fixing the faulty element is the right solution but nevertheless I was thinking of purchasing another pair of these awful metal pieces so that each of them can drive one satellite.
The result will be much less strain especially for the tubes and driving the speakers with 8 ohms will improve also slightly the sound.
The gain will be +3 dbs which has to be compensated also in the low ends by the crossover: this is no problem.
For this change to look perfect I need to:
- buy another pair of monoblocks
- use my actual special LS cables for the low ends (or sell it)
- get 2 pairs of LS cables
- get 2 Pagode reference 2-shelves stands for each channel (2 monoblock). For the moment I can do without the stands.

I'm not sure about this eventual move, I have to think about it for some time as I was not intending to spend more in the system.

 

Titian,

if just the one mono is clipping then surely it is not performing to spec - sadly this seems to be happening quite often with the Nestarovic gear for you

Maybe a call to them, before spending more - after all four monos will surely increase the potential for this amp mismatching?

 

Yes 25-years old tube amplifiers can cause some problems especially when switched to 240 V.

 

Titian,

One option I know to help you with your little problem, Tony Mathews and his 'Soul' range of amplifiers, simply one of the best I've ever heard Period.
You know they are calling you, forget the rest, buy the best

 

Having just heard the system and witnessed the distortion I agree with Merlin.

I don't think the distortion is not clipping, but just the signs of stress and old age. Mind you having just had them serviced I would have hoped this wouldn't happen. My worry would be that it would get worse as time goes by.

Then again it was only really noticable on passages played louder than I would listen to.

And BTW, even with this distortion, it is far and away the best system I have ever heard. So close to real it is amazing.

 

Lee,
I could get a pair which Mile has as spare. The units are like new (not many hours) and all tubes will be replaced. Price sound good.
The ones I have were bought second hand as you know and one of them was never working as it supposed. It seems Mile wasn't able to make it work properly for long either. Other people seem not to have any problems with these amplifiers even after 20 years.

 

And yet he sent it back and charged you. Not my idea of good service. Maybe he'll take your current ones back as P/X for the other pair.

 

I have had similar problems (although on a much, much lower rung of the evolutionary scale) with my Aura amps. I like the way they sound, they suit the the music I listen to and the way I listen to it.
The problem is... they keep breaking (in the case of the Aura, it may well be a basic design error compounded by mediocre build quality and some poor component matching).
The bottom line for me is: if the amp is broke, you aren't listening to music, and when it isn't and you are wondering when it will, you have a serious problem.
Perhaps it is time to look at alternatives, whether Nesterovic or not. After sales service and the ability to repair kit is *Very* important when it comes to amps (one of the reasons Naim has done so well over the years I suspect). I'm gradually moving to Accuphase - because it sounds "right" to my ears (better, oin fact thean the Aura - or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part) and because the service is spectacularly good where I am - even on s/h kit; much of which is still running after 30+ years and all of which - dating back to 1973 amps - Accuphase can service FWIW.
I'm not recommending Accuphase or any other amps to Titian (I would not be so presumptuous over what is quite clearly a spectacularly brilliant system), but while we can become accustomed to the sound of an amp (more or less), breakdowns and poor service are much less easy to live with.
Sorry to ramble, but this is an important topic IMO.

 

When I received them back from him they were working ok so don't see why he shouldn't charge me. He heard only 3 days ago about a problem with the amp but I never specified him exactly what was wrong until yesterday evening.
We haven't discussed what we will be doing with this unit. He first wants to know were the problem is and if it can be repaired over here. He told me to do some tests which I have done this morning. I will report the results to him tonight. It is clear that if the problem can't be solved here the amp will go back to him and he will do the repairs free. I'll have to talk to him though about the shipping costs.
It was my idea of having 2 pairs, this idea came into me end of last year. Up to now we just discussed the pro and contra of having both pairs working together. At the beginning I was just thinking of having a spare pair.

About good service, could you please tell me where I can get a service where I can talk to the developper for over 100 hours a year without being charged and where I can get usefull information to find the right stuff to go with a unit you buy? If the system is sounding like it is doing now is because of his 'custom service' not because I was so knowlegeable to buy the right stuff which match his stuff.

 

Titian

Sorry I misunderstood what you said re Mila and thought he had tried to fix it but couldn't get it 100%.

I still think it un-neccessary biamping, and that it would be best to get it fixed. Otherwise the worry of it breaking down will burn deeper each day.

I thought you were going to wait for his new developement to come out?

 

No problem Lee about misunderstanding.
You just answered while I was editing the last posting so maybe you should read it again.
I find it is nice when someone just say straight what he thinks even if it can be 'painful'.

I was first thinking about his new development but remember he himself doesn't know if it will sound better. He wants to do some experimentation, he believes it can be improved (not much though) but today / yesterday he cannot guarantee anything.
So yes I am not feeling comfortable with this monoblock so either throw them away or fix it. I would also say fix it and nevertheless get a good pair.
I could later on decide to use both pairs at the same time so there won't be so much stress for them or not.
You must also think that getting older I will need to turn up the system higher and higher. Maybe one day I wouldn't hear anything under 93 db.

 

This is not as rare as you might imagine, especially at the stratospheric levels. But more than talk, you want an amp that is reliable and works as specified, and until you get that...

 

Titian, it will be that as you get older you will mellow and only listen to things under 93dB.

Getting another pair and have your current ones as backup would be OK only if they were working 100%. Fix and forget is the term.

It is a shame one is playing up as they do sound great. I hope Mila can fix it, I still think it could be a simple as a dry joint, which is easy, but tedious to fix.

 

Tony, but the soul amps are tome evans' work, credit where its due

 

First, it is not Mile's problem if somebody buys a very cheap second hand amp of his from a broke who might have misshandled it and switched the voltage to 220V without his advice.

It is his problem though if he fixed and upgraded it (even if he made a very fair price) and after a few months it is not working properly again. I am sure we will find a good solution but first we will have to find out where the problem is and if it can be fixed here. He is just as worried as I am. My point is anyway if it wouldn't be better that, even if this unit gets fixed, that I run my system with two pairs of amplifiers. Merlin got a good point about the matching.

 

Maybe a 240v transformer would have been better.

As for Biamping. If the opportunity arises I would do it as essentially I would say Yes, it should be better, but whether it would be is another matter. With your system, if going active and bypassing the passive xovers is an option this would probably be better yet. Does Mila do an electronic xover for your speakers?

 

Well the crossover on the floor which I use for the Krell can be also used for the satellites. They have two outputs with seperate controls, one for the low and one for the high frequencies. I use it only for the low frequencies as suggested by Mila.

 

For full active you would need an electronic xover for the bass/mid/treble of the satellites as well.

Something we wanted to try was passing the output from the xover to the power amps, rather than they have the full range. Have you tried this?

 

ooops. If they are Tom Evans work and they are in the same category of his phono stages and the amps weren't drasticaly improved then they aren't for me.
I had experience with the Groove and Groove+ and I must say that it was quite disappointing to say it in positive words..

Is it easier to live with an amplifier which you will never listen to (because of its quality) or with one which has poor service and which doesn't work well when listening very very loud but is nearly unbeatable when listening up to concert level (or slightly under)?

Yes this was also suggested by Mila. It still distorts when the organ attacks. On orchestral music you don't notice it (either with or without external crossover).

 

Titian,

I have to say, it does appear that the Nesterovic amp remains faulty and should be repaired or replaced.

Your satellites are sensitive aren't they? 92dbw or something and an 8 ohm load. So surely you cannot be driving a healthy 200w valve amp into clipping - I mean 1 watt should give you 86 db at the listening position. Only 32 watts should be required for 100db so you have plenty of room for difficult loads and bass requirements! Something's odd!

It is interesting that we seem to have arrived at a similar position (although of course I have a very compromised setup in comparison) We both use satellites running full range. We both use stereo subs crossing over at 200hz. We both use valves for the satellites, and solid state for the subs! There no doubt the similarities end (my set up cost about 10% of yours!)

I still cannot get my head around it but big subs running up past 200hz (covering the best part of four whole octaves), and with considerable overlap with remote satellites, just seems to transcend traditional hifi at times. But theory says it should not work!

BTW, have you listened to the Jadis JA500 mono's? I was mighty impressed and I rather doubt you'd have the issues you are currently experiencing?