Nonsense audiophile marketing...

Audiophiles are big time suckers...

Just give us fancy words, like organic and natural, rhythmic control, etc..., and the last best, fantastic, great value for money, whatever... imediately becomes crap, throw-away, you are stupid if you keep it, stuff...

It is amazing how many items, in this forum and others, where last years godsends, and now you get flogged if you say you like them... :SWMBO:

On the other hand, if you look at a review with important measurements, but no criogenic or other exquisite words, it imediately gets labeled as BS... :newbie:

I don't believe that every month someone invents cables, or DACs, or whatever so much better, if better at all... It might be different, but not all differences matter, at least to most people... :JPS:

 

Your probabley not wrong !

It the marketing people you need to blame, as they need an angle to work on.

Cables are funny things though, you don't needto do a lot to one , to get a whole new different sound.

I should know as I'm an inveterate cable tweaker !![ does that mean I've no back bone ?]

 

The media doesn't help either, everytime a replacement product they rage and rant on how much better the new model is, 2 years later they talk about new and old model being the same only with slightly different styling.

I suppose a classic example would be amps. The sound hasn't really improved much at over the last 20 years, but the prices have come down making sound quality more affordable.

A fine example of media hype is my Sony STE300 which I paid £70 for new and now wish I hadn't. WHF said this Sony had exellent sound quality etc, but to me it sounds no better than the radio on my mums 1984 Sony reciever which has given to me instead of a skip (the amp section does not work)

 

Antonio

That's why you're supposed to use your own ears.

To be fair though, it is in part a self perpetuating problem within the industry. DACs have definately moved on, and cdps and transports. Amplifiers I'm less certain of, and speakers seem to be going in a direction I don't like. That's market forces at play.

As for BS, it appears everywhere in daily life, not just in Hi-fi, and the trick is to see it for what it is. Generally we here (ZG) seem more seasoned than the average hi-fi buyer though, and even we don't all agree, leaving the door for copious BS wide open to "help" sway those less experienced.

It would however be a poor show, if we were so closed minded not to try stuff, just because we don't think there is anything in it. In the end, only we would lose from adopting such a stance.

Cheers

 

Lowrider, I agree with you.
The "industry" has to sell more and more. The only way is selling more or less the same things again with another cover but with good marketing strategy. The industry is not only the companies who make the electronic equipments or cables (hardware) but also the "specialized" magazines. These are the centre of the marketing. Everyone who is getting into HiFi reads them so their influence in the future of a product and HiFi is immense. To keep on living these magazines need new products (heros) which are better than the previous ones (product of the year and so on..) so there is a big symbiosis between magazines and hardware makers and this is a disadvantage for an objective compare of the units around. To be quite hard and extreme I would say they manipulate us.
In this context I see also the Tact "equilizer" discussed in several parts in this forum. It is certainly a dam good unit but it is the typical "toy" which you will play for the next year but then throw away a couple of years later when you realize that the music is more pure without it or when you get fed up of playing with it. A dealer told me that he has two clients who came to him to make their system "better". The first step will be to remove the tact from their system! Of course you can argue that they didn't settle the unit correctly...

Like very many people said in this and other forums: Trust only your ears.

 

I do use my ears, but also my brain, limited as it is...

It seems obvious that powers and speakers remain very good values, I have discontinued SF and Bryston, and don't need any better... :MILD:

It is also obvious that DACs, and to a certain extent transports, keep changing, new formats and more powerfull chips...

Now, cables, mains and other tweaks are mostly influenced by hype, I believe there are better and worst matches to each system, even that there is always something out there that could improve your system a bit, but that doesn't mean that some "old" ones don't perform very well, and still are good value, just because some iluminated says so... :argue:

 

Indeed. Experience tells me that virtually no-one is running the right cable for them and their system, be that power / speaker or IC. The industry wants us to know about the latest method of cable construction. However it probably has no real relevance to us. A perfectly good existing low tech cable could be just the thing we'e looking for, or maybe not, trying it is the only way.

The worrying thing is the effect that these items have on the boxes. You can almost completely change the performance of a system with cabling, and not just for the better. The only way you'll find an ideal cable is to keep DIYing it until you find it. The industy's cables are too limited, and they're all moving in virtually the same direction. I wrote something about this the other day in one of the threads.

Cheers

 

Titian,

Theorectly I agree with you about TACT, I never heard one though... I am always suspicious about filters, except for low frequencies, where my experience, and my ears , tell me they do more good then harm, active subwoofers and TMREQ, inquestionably improved the sound of my system in my room, as Michael heard too... I am not saying that with different room, etc, I couldn't get better results without them...

Timpy,

I know tweaks can make or brake a system, thats why I spent about 15% in cables, mains, etc... :MILD:

 

I think this is great!

It means that you can pick up really nice pieces of s/h kit for bargain prices that some gullible fool who avidly reads the mags thinks is no good any more

The rate of evolution of most kit, and especially amps and speakers is not very fast.

Robbo

 

Now now Titian, it's not good form to comment on equipment you have not heard, kinda leaves you open to ridicule As for the dealers, were they Tact stockists? You see, Tact are the perceived enemy of the hifi establishment, cutting dealers opportunities to fleece their gullible audiophile clients. Christ, if more people knew of the advances in digital electronics, where the hell would they get their $100K sales from!

FYI, I do not play with my Tact. I tweaked around with it for some four to five months acheiving the balanve I wanted (much like you would with cartridges of interconnects or supports), and now don't touch it, save for using a Para Eq setting on early digital recordings that are naturally rather bass shy I am just happy that I have a pre/power that, in my room is more transparent and natural than any combo I've heard short of $30K.


Now it can be difficult for audioholics to get their head around anything that doesn't glow or spin, or for that matter heat a good sized room and weigh the same as a small car. But hey, Tact are not trying to persuade the old died in the wool audiophools, they are simply selling to music lovers who listen to, rather than ogle at, a hifi.

I thank you

 

[Now now Titian, it's not good form to comment on equipment you have not heard, kinda leaves you open to ridicule As for the dealers, were they Tact stockists? You see, Tact are the perceived enemy of the hifi establishment, cutting dealers opportunities to fleece their gullible audiophile clients. Christ, if more people knew of the advances in digital electronics, where the hell would they get their $100K sales from!



Hi Mate,

I wouldnt say that is true.

All hifi choices make you a pariah at one forum or another..... depending on whether your equipment choices fit within the excepted norm of the forum populace.

Thats not the bit that I find funny... what amuses me is that all forums declare themselves free from equipment bias and flaming of certain brands.. and yet all forums do it!!

Something about people not liking to hear bad things said about their (borg?) collective..


On the audiophile BS angle - yeah, I agree more than most. I find a lot of the stuff secretly hilarious!! hehehehe :JOEL:

I get my audiophile candy mag, and my Russ Andrews mag mainly for giggles.


Chris

 

Sorry Merlin about my post,
not meant to offend you or anybody else.
I agree with your comments.

titian

 

No offence taken Titian

It was just that I don't feel that the Tact brand fits in with accepted hifi norm of upselling through the range (Naim?) or releasing new "upgraded" replacements every year ( MF anyone?), that leads to never ending dissatisfaction for the masses when coupled with agressive marketing and effective advertorials in HiFi rags

That doesn't fit in well with the average retailer, given that it reduces the opportunity of repeat business. They also generally lack the knowledge required to maximise products based around a Windows platform and powerful DSP.

Antonio is right, and I suspect that the only way to get away from the constant upgrade cycle, is to buy products from outside of the accepted norm, as both you and I coincidentally have

 

I think it's more to do with buying the right stuff in the first (2nd...6th) place. If something feels 'right' in the first 5 seconds it probably is. If it takes days to sink in, it's probably not really for you, or not that much different from what you've got already, and you'll end up changing it before long.

This may well coincide with being outside the accepted norm, as they will normally be one-man bands with a good idea or two, which they want to make the best of. Those products will probably also be made with a fair degree of care, as they are the babies of the owner/designer, who will see happy/disgruntled customers personally. And although they probably gravitate that way (no economies of scale), these need not be necessarily mega-expensive either; although I've not heard them, I'd guess Lim_valve's stuff falls into this bracket.

But this is nothing specific to hifi equipment. How much music that you bought 5 years ago do you still listen to? (Actually in my case - most of it, because it's hardly the latest fad when it's mostly over 60-100 years old!)

 

Absolutely my experience. I'm all in favour of the 5 minute audition. People stroking their chins, straining to hear an improvement because they really, in their heart of hearts, have already decided they want to buy article X before they even hear it is more common than we think, even among otherwise smart people.

-- Ian

 

Why do I always here an improvement ever time I try an do a subtle upgrade? is it my brain wanting to believe its better, is it just plain different or is it actually better? thats a hard one

 

Timpy, what is this direction you feel speakers are taking that you don't like?

 

out of his possesion?

 

:ffrc: :ffrc: :ffrc:

 

No, not really.

More expensive speakers used to sound like cheaper speakers only better. Now more expensive speakers tend to sound more airy, and spacious / refined, but with all the drive and dynamics sucked out of them.

Try comparing Linn Kabers with their current replacement at the price :chunder:, or a pait of Kef Reference 2.2's with their current replacement .

It's not just these examples either, it seems to be an industry wide thing. I'd like to have a word woth some of the designers...... :spank: :chainsaw:

Cheers