Odd experience at Superfi yesterday

Couldn't resist mentioning this.

Yesterday I went to buy a new pair of HD600s from Superfi, as they were easily the cheapest group around.

Whilst there, I thought I'd ask about av processors and amps.
At present, I have a straight stereo setup, the soon to be ex-wife getting the AV kit. DVD movies are played back via my NOS DAC into stereo, and it actually sounds rather good.
Having said all of that, I know that I'm missing rear effects, and am considering something like an add on processor. Note that I have zero interest in surround sound music. Tried it, hated it.

So, I ask the assistant about av processors, explaining that I only need it for films, and that I need something with pre-outs to use my stereo for the front channels. The response he gave me was pretty much "any old cheapo AV amp with the right functionality will do fine, and spending more is pointless".
I was a little taken aback. Whilst digital processing may be common across a lot of a manufacturers range, I'd be surprised if all of the pre-amp circuits and power supplies are common.

Am I missing something here? Do I really buy the cheapest Denon/Yammy/Marantz AV amp I can that has pre-outs for the fronts, or is there a genuine benefit by adding a good processor?

My previous reading/experience suggests that something like a s/h Linn 5103, Rotel 1068 or Meridian 568 would wipe the floor with any normal AV amp.

Thoughts?

 

I got mine from Ask, where they appear to be £10 less AFAICT .

If your previous experience suggests there are enormous differences between preamp sections, then I think you've got the answer you're looking for.

 

Makes sense to me,I have a cheapo Pioneer 912 using the preouts into a Bel Canto,driving a front three B&W 800series and subwoofer,into Kef rears,seemed nuts to spend more.

 

yep, the cheapest one will do.

I am advertising a Yamaha DSPa595a Dolby Digital/DTS amp that has full preouts in the classifieds. Even has a glow in the dark, learning remote

 

well, it's what I use and I'm happy with the sound from my system whilst watching movies...!

tho, the temptation to buy a real expensive model is always there...

 

Well, I'm about to change from a £500 Harmon Kardon av amp, to a processor of about £1000 level, e.g. the Rotel 1068 and for power I'll be using my main Exposure 28 for left/right, and Exposure 2010 amps for centre and rear ( centre amp switched to mono ).
I'll let you know how I get on in a few weeks.

Superfi isn't exactly a real hifi shop is it? Is it ? I reckon he was talking bollox. Perhaps he really misunderstood what you were meaning. Or perhaps they don't stock the higher stuff anyway.

 

Superfi is not my favourite.....once tried to sell me some repaired stuff as new ..long boring story.... Since found they are part of a group that includes "the sony centre" "Nottingham HiFi[?]" plus others.....[can't remember]. They were done for selling grey goods as white a while ago. An exwork[don't do the w word now!] collegue had seven rotel amps from them each were faulty ! leading to the suspiscion they were factory returns sold as new. Now this was a couple or three years back ....but I wouldn't recomend them.

 

The salesman is either very wrong or has cloth ears, having gone in the last 6 months from Yamaha DSP-E800 --> Arcam AVR200 (incidently for sale) --> Meridian 568.2 I can safely say that at each stage there has been a significant improvement mainly in the following areas - detail, dynamics and realism of sound.

The 568.2 also renders a NOS DAC superflorous IMHO as is standard CD decoding is awesome (using a Denon 2910 and Squeezebox and transports)

If movies are a big part of your 'listening' then the Meridian type processor is definitely worth it, otherwise I'd say something of the Arcam level will meet your requirements and obviously includes amplifiers for the rears.

FYI my Meridian processor was ex-demo and about 40% of its new price with 2 years warranty, but still not cheap though!

Does that help?

Mr Perceptive

 

Very true. Would add Lexicon and Tag to your list of processor to try. However, should you wish to get the later you do need to pray very hard to your hifi god that it does not break as their service centre is shockingly understaffed. Seems like one technician is working.

 

What nos DAC have you got?

 

I have a DerekShrek NOS.
I guess I'll see where I stand once everything has been financially resolved with "her".
If I'm feeling flush, maybe I'll look more seriously at the Meridian unit.
When previously running with a combination of AV amp and stereo kit, the AV side was provided by a cheapy Marantz unit. Could be a nice cheapy solution again...

 

Thats odd, my derek shek dac wont decode dvd's i just get a tone, Im going to look into this.

Sorry bout the split BTW.

 

Surely if your DVD player is set up to PCM output whichever mode (disc decoding) its in, the NOS DAC will decode it. Howver it may produce odd effects if fed with a 5.1 stream!

I've set my Denon DVD unit up to generate 5.1 streams with DVD's and 16 bit PCM with CDs. The Meridian 568.2 can then also be set up to auto-recognise the data stream coming in, 2 channel or multichannel and switch accordingly to the correct decoding/DSP programme, all completely seamless

I'm afraid I didn't rate my Derek Shrek NOS DAC and sold it on within a couple of weeks, I much preferred by then Meridian 203 DAC.

Mr Perceptive

PS Mr_Sukebe remember its whats in you head that counts not the money or the possessions (I've been there), hope it all works out ok

 

I have my DVD player set to downmix both DD and DTS, and the NOS more than happily deals with the signals.

My guess with the NOS, as per most hi-fi kit is that it's a question of finding synergy with the kit in question. To me the NOS is very natural, possibly a little laid back. Mixed in with the forwardness of the Naim kit I have, and it sounds brill. Have to say that it concerns me a little that changes to say my pre-amp might knock that synergy out of kilter, so I'm now very wary of even thinking about it.

Interesting that you mention the 203, used to have one of those a couple of years ago. IMO the NOS is a good deal better, but again that's where synergy comes in.

I know what you mean about getting my head together. The longer the process for dealing with things goes on, the more stressed I'm feeling. Really not good stuff.

 

The sales assistant definitely has cloth ears....I've tried that sort of solution a while back when I was trying out AV gear for the first time,with a Denon receiver pre-outs feeding what was a Krell/Linn Keltik system at the time,and what a disappointment in terms of sound quality...wooly,poor imaging etc.

I've since upgraded through a TAG AV32R to an AV32R/Dual Processor,with room EQ etc....absolutely no comparison,and whilst Av is also a secondary consideration for me,I still want it to work properly and sound good.

 

I was using the 203 with Naim kit!!!! (but now all Meridian - processing and amplification) We must like a different type of presentation.

Take a chill pill and don't get stressed, my ex-wife got very anal about every last penny and possession, in the end I let her take most of them (even curtain poles!), I left with effectively my hi-fi (she took many records and CDs though), my pension, my TVR (which I had for years, now sold) and my business left intact. I even had to borrow from my parents for a deposit for my next house! I got over it fairly quickly but she was screwed up for years. Just remember your health is the most important thing you have and at the end of the day money and possessions don't really matter.

All the best

Mr Perceptive

 

yeah, I guess everyones different...as having my 2 amps connected together when watching dvds it much better than when I mearly used the yammy amp...and thats not a naff amp either, despite it being oldish...I bought the nad as the yammy couldn't do stereo...

 

I would agree that the quality of the AV pre, and power amps makes an enormous difference. I started with an Arcam 10/DAVE, having failed to get on with the Denon brittleness, and upgraded to a Proceed AVP/AMP5, which handles both music and movies with aplomb. Soundtracks to movies in particular now really add to the atmosphere, whilst surround sounds appear and disappear rather than smearing their way around the room. Probably most of this is down to the Power Amp, but the AV pre section, whilst only having DD/DTS/Prologic sounds pretty good to my ears.
On music the improvement was so dramatic it led me to upgrade my speakers to get the most from it!

 

I'm surprised about the experiences with Superfi. I've had dealings with the one in Birmingham on a few occasions with no problems whatsoever. Would definitely use them again. I suspect it's like most of these chain stores though, the name's all well and good but without the staff to back it up they're going to appear useless.