Oh, records! Yes, I almost forgot.

I am on the verge of ordering my new Exposure pre-amplifier and I only today remembered that to take a turntable I'd better specify a phono board ! Both MM or MC is offered, but only either or. I don't know what to do so maybe you can help me. Vinyl is not too important to me but I do have a decent collection so I do want the facility. My front end for vinyl is modest: a Rega 3 ( RB300arm ) and a Goldring1042 which cost about a hundred quid a long time ago. That would point me to MM obviously, but I leave the question open. The sound from the Goldring is decent enough ( I was impressed at my Exp 17 working with it ) if not particularly exciting; sort of safe in an Arcam kind of way if you know what I mean. Now I know that ultimate cartridges are MC and you see them on higher up turntables but all that is too much money for the importance I attatch to my records - I'll probably stick with my Rega. I wonder if a budget MC for my Rega would do very much better than my MM 1042 ? I've heard the is a bargain Denon , but can't recall its model. Then again, if I was changing cartridges there are some cracking MMs available too. I wouldn't want to spend much money. Then I'm thinking, what about second hand,mmm, I could get an LP12 or something, but then there is the difficult set up and would I really buy a second hand cartridge and then if it was new that would cost a packet and so on and so on. So, thoughts please, should I stick to what I've got with maybe a change to a more exciting MM cartridge, and so specify MM for the amplifier? Or, specify MC for either a cheap MC to slot in my Rega or a whole hog used TT change. For my circumstances: MM or MC ?

 

I

Hi,
I had this problem when i bought a Naim Stageline. I went for the MM version because you can start out with a MM especially as you already have one and then there is the high output MCs like the Denons you mention DL110/160. If you did end up with a LP12 then a Dynavector 10X5 high output MC would be the dogs and all through a MM input.
Hope this helps a bit.

Cheers.

 

The cheap Denon moving coil is the DL 103, a cracking cart indeed, it's currently showing my Shure V15 MxVR a clean pait of heels as we speak, it is very good indeed. You would need MC though.
There you go, two posts two different answers!

 

Hi Lordsummit,
Indeed i have heard many good things about the 103s including that they sound similar to the 110/160s, could be the broadcast heritage thaing goin on. Infact it would be nice to hear from people who have heard both to see if this is true.

Cheers.

 

IME a cheap MC should be a big step up from the Goldring. I started with a 1042, it was good as I'd have trashed an MC the way I used it but after learning valuable lessons, a similarly priced MC actually made me want to listen to LPs a hell of alot more.

 

Machineman, I wasn't even thinking about high output MC's, I had thought if I was to go MC I'd do it with MC board. The Denon I had in mind, I didn't know anything about its output by the way. The question really is am I going to get substantially better from it than what I've got or from a higher up Rega MM cartridge say? If the answer is there's more I can do with MM, then I guess I'll specify MM for he board as that will be cheapest ( in front end terms) and less hassle. As regards high output MC's, I would hate to feel that the cartridge is struggling to be heard so to speak, on an MM board. Lord Summit: Its a good thing you posted your Denon thread at the same time as this will help feed a good discussion for us. Anex: Even on an unsprung TT like Rega, if that's an issue? Does anyone know of any brilliant MM for reasonable money that would make a diffence on my Goldring? Here's another question to you all: With SOME amplifiers, the line only variants sound better than their equivalent with a phono board, like it is somehow impeding the rest of the amplifier. I know this one true of my old Audio Innovations Series 500 . They really had to cram that phono board in inside that design and it was said that the line only S700 had a cleaner and tighter sound. Mind you, I don't really expect this to be a problem with Exposure for whom until only a few years ago TT figured big in users lives and it was common to have one in the case. So I'm guessing that in Exposure's case its not going to make a difference. But, I'd appreciate opinion or related experience on that please. Remember I can always buy a second hand phono stage if it is the case.

 

Cloth Ears I've been through a fair few carts, from mid Rega's to Ortofon high outputs to the Shure VxMR. The cart I've enjoyed most has been the Denon on Tony L's set up, hence my move to this. IMHO the Denon is really opening out, I've done a few hours (5) on it and it's become much more open. I'm not sure about the treble, that's a tad unrefined as yet but that could well be the phono stage. The one's I've heard have never been tizzy. If it were me, for the money a 1042 costs there's no way I'd go with that, I'd get the Denon and have a MC stage in your amp. Then if you upgrade the TT and ultimately the cart you'll have further you can go. MM don't get much better than the Shure V15 I've got but I think the 103 is possibly as good in it's own way. I'll tell you more when I've spun some more discs, given it a bit more stick, and listened to some big orchestral music!.

 

Forget LP12's, forget cheap m/c's, your cartridge is really fine and not bland unless it's past its best.
Give more credance to your T/T. Sell your Rega and buy a Roksan Radius 5 c/w Nima Unipivot Arm, used if you have to. Blows away LP12, and the Nima and 1042 are a match made in heaven! You will forget all about moving coils to be sure.

 

Lordsummit: the 1042 is already mine and is sitting on the Rega. That was interesting about the Roksan. Tell me people, in general are used turntables selling for little money or is it the opposite, like they are gold. I really don't know if more people are offloading vinyl or returning to it/ getting decent spinner now they are better off.

 

Hi Clothears.

I think the choice of MM or MC depends on how you really feel about splashing on a better cartridge.

If you think you might not bother, go MM. You can use the cartridge you have, and there are always better MM's or high output MC's that will work fine into a MM stage.

If you're determined to splash lots of cash then a MC stage might well be better, depending on what the inbuilt phono stage is like in the first place of course..

 

I think most of the offloading was done some years ago, and now there are those that regret doing that. Some of them are coming back into vinyl and buying turntables available today, some way above what was previously used, but not necessarily for big bucks.

 

Dear Cloth Ears,
There is more you can do with MM. The 1042 you have is a fine cart, in Len Gregory's opinion (The Cartridge Man) it's the next best thing to his Music Maker cart and if you want to spend circa £600 then you can plug that into a MM stage aswell. If you still want to try a MC at a later date then that is just another reason for my recommending a MM stage because there are one or two good High output coils out there.

Actually the opposite is true in my experience a 2.5mv high output moving coil like the Dynavector 10X5 needs about 12pm on the volume dial to be really loud compared to 11pm for my current 7mv Rega Elys. So only an extra notch really. By contrast i've seen low output MCs needing to be cranked to 3/4pm to sound loud. There is also more loading/gain settings with MC which need to be set accurately. A lot more faffing to get get it sounding right.
The other thing to remember with a MM stage is, a high output cart whether MM or MC can be a good thing in terms of Signal to noise ratio.
As an afterthought, i'm sure one or two Denon 103 owners will step in here an say they have to do no such thing with their volume control to get reasonable levels however this depends on the phono stage, how configurable etc, but my point is your still gonna be stuck with MC. Why do that when you can have the best of both worlds? If you like the 103 sound then you can still have it with the 110/160 Denons.

 

I'd agree better TT and look for a good stand alone phono stage....I prefere dynavectors my self the 10x5 and the diamond cantilever ones should really get a good tt singing.

 

I would never buy a cartridge from a company which cannot be bothered to include a stylus guard.

 

That kind of excludes most of the best cartridges...

There's really no point spending much money on a cartridge for a P3, the 1042 is fine, a very good cartridge, or a high output Denon if you want MC. Any more than that and you'd be better off spending the money on a better TT, but if, as you say, vinyl's not that important to you, a P3/1042 is plenty good enough.

-- Ian

 

Well actually I've had some pretty good cartridges including Ortofons MC30 Supreme, and MC3000. I had never come across a high-end cartridge without a stylus guard until Dynavector's 10x5 came my way. To say I was shocked...I was horrified!! I dismissed it immediately however good it sounded. What I failed to understand was that Dynavector do included a guard for their more expensive items.

 

Words of wisdon there Sideshowbob, and also from Machinist and Bottleneck particularly. Basically confirming what I believed in the gut. As someone also said, I can always try the high output MC Denons when the Goldring runs out. I think going the full MC route would entail an expensive cartridge and obviouosly an expensive arm and platform for it. In the context of how many of my LPs I still want to hear and set against what I could do elsewhere, I think that expense would not be justified. Therefore the right path is to specify MM for my amp. Thank you all for indulging my thread. It has been a useful brainstorm and one that I hope others in a similar position may find helpful.

 

MC isn't always expensive and I don't see why you need to change your arm and TT, yes it will work better on a better arm etc. but so will the Goldring. I bought my first MC from ebay for £60. Its a gamble but it paid off.

 

I did use a DL110 on a p3, into a rega phono stage, and the sound was very impresive compared to the mid range rega it replaced. (but like going from just of tune FM reception to crack on) sound stage grew, better placement, and still plenty of drive. I have since changed decks to a P25, and the Denon just got better in its new home. If you want to spend the extra cash straight away, I would reccomend a DL103 and the MC board, but if you want to stay with HO MC and MM as your option then I do not think you will be disapointed with the 110. There is a family sound, the 103 has a bit more of everything than the 110, but I do not think the 160 is any better than a 110
________
Sunset Boulevard Residence Condo

 

Until you actually hear a 103, that is