Old v new

Hi
One of the Hi Fi Choice guys suggested I post here, so here goes:

Just swapped an NVA (sp?) 35 watt amp into my ancient system, made up of an Arcam Alpha 7 CD player, Meridian 101 pre amp (with imcos and separate power supply) and Gale GS401 speakers. And it sounded pretty good. And so...

Is the Carver cube (M400) which I normally use crap, and was I seduced by the huge power output? And should I get another power amp, or get separates, including a new CD player, integrated amp and tuner (keeping the speakers)? In other words, do new sub £200 CD players sound significantly better than my old Alpha 7? Because if they do, I can't see the point in getting a super-duper power amp and marrying it to my other ancients.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Oh, and is there an effective record cleaner out there? Not for dust. I've got some which look like they've been damp and they have patches across the vinyl.
_

 

a 200 quid CD spinner is unlikely to give revelatory differences IMHO. A second hand budget of 500-800ish should get you there again IMHO.

Of course, this doesnt mean a super-duper amplifier wont make a difference.

But then, I dont listen to many new 200 pounds CD players these days. Perhaps someone more in touch with the latest entry level CD players can comment.

Try a Disco antistat from www.audiophilecandy.co.uk or many other places if youre looking for wet-cleaning on a budget.

 

Thanks for that. To be honest I was surprised an integrated 35 watter would bloody the nose of my (albeit olde worlde) Meridian 101 and Carver power amplifier. So either things have come on a long way, or the Carver's out of its depth.

I can throw some money at another power amp, but if overall I would get a better sound from a modern £200 player, £200 amp, etc (and get a warranty, because let's face it, my pre-amp could pack up tomorrow), then it has appeal.

I think I'll pop into Grahams at lunchtime and have a chat.

 

Hi MickyP,

Welcome aboard.

There are plenty of items of old equipment that will perform & sound better than new stuff. Hifi companies, like most companies, need to make sales & profit. So the need to 'invent' new models & upgrades. Some will be an improvement & alot are just different or worse.

Huge power ratings can mean little. It's the amps ability to drive the load in question that counts. A lot of amps are measured using a (mainly) pure resistive load. Their performance can change when asked to drive a (reactive) speaker load. As the load of the speaker changes with frequency, can the amp cope with this?

The Gales were a speaker that need a bit of driving but do respond to a good signal. (like most speakers). Also get some quality stands if you don't already have some.

If the NVA is performing ok then go for a better cd player. You would need to compare your cd player to the competition to see how it compares. I would doubt that the current sub £200 cd players are better.

You could go for all new stuff but this would cost & you may or may not want to spend that sort of money. You do need to compare you old stuff with new stuff.

With regards to the records, it sounds like you may have mildrew on them. This is caused by excessive moisture attracting mildrew spores onto your vinyl. You can use any thing from a detergent/solvent/enzyeme solution to get rid of it.

You can clean your records many ways. A vacuum record cleaner with a good solution will do the job very well. The solutions that come with these should do the job. The Disco Antistat which costs around £45 is a device that uses a bath of a chemical solution to do the job.

Even a damp cloth of a light detergent solution should do it. You do have to be careful to make sure the is no residue left behind. So careful rinsing & drying is needed.

SCIDB

 

That was very helpful. Thank you.

A family bereavement has left me with another system and the NVA amp was part of it. What I don't like about it is the cone-thump I get when I turn it on. One of the guys on the Hi Fi Choice forum suggested, too, that these amps (for which I can find no information on, so I presume the company's gone bust) have no protection, so I am a bit twitchy about using it fulltime. What it has done, though, is draw attention to the fact that a 'budget' (I presume it's budget) amp can sound better than my existing amplification, which shook me. I will keep the NVA for the other system and for sentimental reasons but I don't think I'll feel happy using it in the main system. I know, too, that more Gales are destroyed by low power amps than high power ones.

If you were buying a modern amp, which would you go for?

 

At what price?

 

NVA did some cracking little amps.

Do look after it; there's no output protection in the amp and shorted speaker cables *will* fry the output stage. Usually fixable I'm told - if you can get into the case!

IIRC the designer/owner was abit of a character - at one time the warranties expressly forbade playing Babylon Zoo through NVA kit...

 

It sort of comes back to not being able to find out anything about the NVA. Ie how much was that?

I could go £600-ish BUT if a sub £350 integrated Nad, Marantz or something else is as good (this is where you'd have to have some knowledge of the Meridian 101) in the context of the rest of the system, that would do just fine, and I'd throw the balance, maybe, at another CD player.

I know I have to try some amps at home, because no hi fi store will have my kit, but you see the dilemma. Why get a £600 power amp if my olde world pre-amp won't do it justice.

 

This review Hi-Fi Choice NVA P50/A60 might help to explain why NVA aren't around any more.

One point to note is that NVA amps need high inductance speaker cables (like Naim). If you use high capacitance cables (or attempt to bi-wire), the amp is likely to get upset.

 

Bizarre! It seems that the integrated amp was better than the separates. I kid you not, the 35 watter integrated that I plumbed in sounded sweet, and other forum contributors have commented on the good sound of NVA products. So it seems they had some lousy models, too! Cable I was using was DNM solid core. Note sure of their tech spec...



EDIT TO SAY: How old is that review?

 

The chap at Signals seemed to like them: Signals

There's still a home page: Nene Valley Audio

Seems they were well regarded by a lot of people.

 

Hi MickyP,

NVA had there fans. I have read a number of good reviews about their stuff. They were a querky company.

They did rate using naim & DNM cable with their amps. These cables have spaced conductors. This gives low capacitance & high inductance. It is needed to keep the amp stable. Cables like Goertz cable, high capacitance/low inductance, could make the amp unstable. There is no zorbel network in the amp to help to keep it stable. Stick with DNM stuff.

The stuff doesn't look as well made as alot of kit. Having said that, they did make a 'Statement range' which look very diffferent.

I have a NVA passive in my collection of items. NVA used wood & non magnetic materials lot for their cases. You do see NVA stuff on 2nd hand around. There has been bits & bobs on ebay.

I think that reviews from around 5 to 6 years ago.


SCIDB

 

Fascinating, and filling in some gaps. Just remembered who supplied the 101 power supply – Avondale. I see they're well into tweaking Naims now!

Richard Dunn, NVA MD mentioned in the NVA test. He sounds awfully familiar. Was he the boss of another amplifier manufacturer from the eighties?

Thanks for all the info guys. I've been out of the loop for a long while.

 

Hi MickyP,

Richard Dunn was a designer & owner of Tresham Audio. They did mainly pro audio equipment.

SCIDB

 

Ah, thought he sounded familiar.

Anyways, I will pester the Graham's techies for an answer on the amp front and I'll let you know.

Thanks again.

FINAL EDIT TO SAY: Very interesting interview with Richard Dunn on the NVA site.

 

Record Cleaning Fluid
Why not make your own.
Distilled water and isopropyl alcohol from a chemist mixed 5 parts water to 1 part isopropyl alcohol and 1 drop of washing up liquid. Does the trick for me.

Bob

 

So I've made up my brew, what next? ie what do I agitate it with, clean it off with, etc.

 

the washing up liquid aint such a good idea, it has salt in it witch will stay on the disc. You can get liquid without salt but its not easy to find.
Some people use Kodak photo wetter, an agent that helps to break the surface tension of water and so it flows easier.

 

A couple of points

I can't comment on NVA reliability, but the Carver cube tried to be groundbreaking on many fronts. I should have thought that this early technology non-conventional amp [switching>switching] could have a more catastrophic failure, though I'm only guessing.

The cube is one of the few amps where I will definitely side with the cable-fairies. It has a terrible mains load [power factor etc] and may be mains supply affected. It also might spray garbage down the mains line affecting other kit.

 

I think I would begin by borrowing a few quality seperate pre amps and power amps.

You may find its just one of the two items that is not to your liking.

From vaguest of memories, I dont think the NVA was a real budget sub 200 amp. More 400-600 ish... I stand to be corrected though! it was a long time ago.



good luck, and try lots of stuff!

Chris