Omni-directional speakers

As an appendix to 'how do we listen', does anyone here use/have experience of omni-directional type speakers?

 

Not true omnis, but I have Shahinian Obelisks (http://www.shahinianacoustics.com/) and have had the Duevel Belle Luna (http://www.duevel.info/Produkte/bellaluna_st.htm) in my system.

What do you want to know?


Cheers

Jason

 

Shahinian are one of the speakers I would be most interested to hear - however the price new would be an issue. Grahams in London would appear my most likely option for a listen, so am really trying to get an idea of what sort of sound to expect. Did hear a pair of Duevel (Belle Luna I think) but only for about 20 mins and not with recordings I knew, liked them enough to want to arrange a proper dem and look into this area a bit further.

So usual sorts of things really - what do they do well/what don't they do, how fussy are they about the rest of the system (I'm mainly Cyrus), how did the Duevel compare to the Shahinian, how big is your room, anything else that came close before you bought, what sort of thing do you listen to.....

Must be time to put the kettle on.

Have had a look at your system listing and yes, am on a somewhat tighter budget.

Thanks

 

The Mirage OM1 are also worth a look - I demmed one powered by a PassLabs X350, and it made some very convincing sounds..

 

Lots of questions!

One thing you might want to do is check out parts of this pfm thread where the baby Shahinians are discussed:
http://63.99.108.232/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9591&highlight=saturday

The Shahinians do scale better than most speakers. When I talk about what I like in the listening thread it is the right relative scale that I like and the way Shahinains protray that aspect is really impressive. Even the little ones (elves, starters, compasses) are capable of getting it surprisingly right. They are very good at tonal qualities and can groove along really well. They produce a lot of bass considering the size of the cabinets and can excite room modes that non-omnis won't. They throw a huge soundstage and when wide apart you never get a whole in the middle. The imaging isn't pin sharp but the sweet spot is basically all over the room. Very few speakers match them for off axis listeneing. They are also quite amplifier unfriendly so in large rooms with large volume requirements you need a big amp. Average room and average volume then your Cyrus gear should be fine. Older versions of each speaker are even less amplifier friendly (dips in impedance to 2Ohm in the treble). I use Shahinian Obelisks in one end of an 11ft*25ft room (used to have them in 14ft*20ft) . Too small in many ways but they do sound great even so.

I have since heard a lot of speakers (Neat MFS, Duevels ...) but nothing has really inspired me to change. I like the pseudo-omni sound so any upgrade I make, after moving to a bigger house, would be to get Hawks.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Jason

 

Thanks for that, will have a wade thro' the pfm thread (seems to be a fair bit of chaff).

Room will be 25 x 15 when it's done, the 'no sweet spot' aspect is one that particularly appeals.

Thanks again

 

As Jason is too modest to point this out: you can read his thoughts on the Shahinians and the Duevels in Hifi+ back issues.

 

I suppose that as I started the "How do we Listen" thread I should comment on this one.

I have for over 9 years used different Apogee's (dipoles) as my main speakers. I love them and don't think I could part with the ones I have now (Mini Grands).

I had known for some time that I would probably be losing my listening room for 12 - 15 months while we have a new house built.

I looked for alternatives, either stupidly or more likely fortuitously I bought a pair of Mirage OM5's (Omni polars), although they are the largest Mirage make, they have a neat footprint and are nowhere near as imposing as the Apogee's. I heard them in a dealers only, before I bought them. I was impressed by what I heard and knew of another dealer selling his demo pair. I paid less than 50% of RRP, and even then part ex'd gear I no longer used, ending up paying less than £450.00 cash including delivery.

(As an aside I fully understand alanbeeb's logic in selling his Quads, I am probably older than him and don't have kids at home any longer to worry about.)

Coda II in your size of room I think they would be awesome. They do not have a sweet spot as such. I can sit in the old sweet spot seat, move 6'-0" to left or right, stand up, walk backwards or right up to the plane of the speakers they do not loose out on the image they provide.

They have tremendous coherence top to bottom, and what a bottom end, I have had to reduce the level I listen at, because even with the 'active' controls set flat, the bottom end is stomach churning. They seem to suit my temporary room better that the Apogee's, even though basically they are the same 2 X 8" sub woofers for each side. It may be because the Mirage 2 X 8's are vertical whilst the Apogee's 2 X 8's are horizontal, but I am only guessing.

What they do not do is provide a pin point etched in space type image. (Neither do the Apogee's).

There is much more image front to back. A startling thing that they do very well is, on a recording of a live performance, if a singer or musician moves quickly, think a guitarist like a young Pete Townsend, I can actually determine the movement, something I have not been able to notice before.

Ken

 

Extremely popular in the USA, and I too have been impressed with these 'omni' type speakers.

You should also read the article Keith Howard published on omni-directional loudspeakers in the December 2003 Hi-Fi News magazine too. He references other manufacturers such as Von Schweikert there too who have a very clever cross-over design.

I can tell you that Von Schweikert speakers can be demmed at 'audioplay' in London, contact Simon Phipps:

tel:+44(0) 207 3596962
mob:+44 (0) 7966 101971
e-mail: [email protected]

(No connection to me).

 

Thanks for the pointers, I really should get out and hear some of these things.

Is phonography the best place for Shahinian ? as I will have to travel anyway.

 

Phonography is probably the most pro-Shahinian shop in the South. Last time I was there they had Compasses, Arcs, Obeliks and Hawks on demo and their sometimes dodgy main dem room sounded great.

Cheers

Jason

 

Hi,

I have experience with almost any type around. Instead of being specific, I'll rather cover the primary aspects of Speakers operation here.

First, if you where in an open field with the speakers pointed at your listening position it would matter zip what the horizontal dispersion of the speakers is and very little what the vertical one is. In other words Omni's or Highly directional speakers would actually present music the same way.

This also holds true for playing these speakers in an anechonic (torture) chamber.

Once you move your speakers into an acoustically "life" room things change.

To put it succinctly, using fairly directional speakers (much more directional than common "HiFi" speakers) promotes the sound of the actual recording over that of the room reverb, allowing you to in effect hear the acoustics of the recording space. In other words, such a setup has the ability to transport you into the concert hall.

On the other hand, using speakers that approach omnidirectionality promote the soundfield of the room over direct sound, true Omni's to a very large degree, so that any cues to the original recording spaces acoustics are drowned in the rooms reverbrant soundfield. In other words, such a setup fills the room with sound and crams whatever recording you play into your listening room. An even more extreme example of this are Bose 901's which take this approach to the extreme.

So, the key choice is between "I am there" (controlled diretcivity) and "they are here" (omnidirectional).

Given how recordings vary and so on, I would feel that a speaker whose directivity can be at will and continously altered between Omni and highly directional would be an ideal solution. Simply tune the degree of "hereness" and "thereness" you want.

Loads of "Hereness" for "Girl & Guitar" music and loads of "Thereness" for big classical works.

Ciao T

 

and the name of that speaker is..................?


On the 'thereness' thing, is there not an inherent problem in suspension of disbelief? OK, close your eyes and off you go (perhaps) but what happens when you open them and find a full symphony orchestra in your listening room? The closest analogy I can find at present is that I would rather the orchestra were out in the garden with me listening through some open double doors.

 

Hi,

There isn't one. I am aware of VERY FEW variable directionality microphones, which combine multiple small capsulas and mix the output signals apropriatly to attain the desired directivity, I cannot quite come up with a workable app

Well, you won't. The sound can fool the ears, not the eyes. The whole point is that the Orchestra is not transported into your room (that would be "hereness" but that (based on acoustical perception at least) you are transported into a different acoustic space or what i call "thereness".

I appreciate that there is a cognitive dissonance in either approach, as what is heard does not match what is seen. However, if you listen to music without attached pictures you are obviously LISTENING, so switch the irritating eyes off....

Hmmm. Then you need to record it that way and build a system that reproduces it that way....

Ciao T

 

Maybe looking for a better analogy would be cheaper !

The more serious question would be whether you have any suggested listening to add here ?

Hereness..............

Thereness.............

Happiness.............?