passive preamps

My set up at the moment consists of NAS Dais, EAR 890, Naim nac202 (supercap), Art Audio vinyl one. I have a choice with my next upgrade between trying a Music First preamp or a NAC252 for which i already have a supercap. I don't really know how a passive preamp would fit into my system but having bypassed my present preamp and gone direct from phono stage to amp it has shown me that I would not lose any of the drive, detail and vitality that i enjoy. The only thing I lost by doing this was a slight decrease in tonality and smoothness, so what would a passive preamp bring to my system that a 252 couldn't?.

regards, fro

 

I would have to say. If you are trying to choose between different pre amps then I would find a dealer who has them and willing to let you try them. I know the Music First very well. Infact its my friend Johnathan Billington who makes them, round the corner here in sunny Hastings.

I don't know Naim equpment very well. But try and get both preamps in at the same time to have a shoot out.

 

best advice I can give fro, is ''borrow one''.

Noteworthy Audio were willing to lend me a music first.

Hificollective lent me their transformer based passive too.

The latter is better value IMO, if you like what these do.

IMHO you will notice a more neutral presentation, but without as much 'drive'. It's a personal preference in presentation thing.

The money you would save on something like a glasshouse TVC in comparison to your naim stuff might let you buy more stuff or music. A plus

 

If you've already got a Art Audio vinyl one then why not an Art Audio VP1 pre, should make nice with the EAR

 

Having used a passive preamp for 15 years I have always found active preamps unsatisfactory. Do try a passive at home. Often you hear of people with active preamps finding the benefits of (usually much cheaper) passives and then changing over and being wowed. But one rarely hear of passive users substituting for a cheaper active preamp and going wow.

 

lee, this is an idea that i have also been toying with and something i will be trying in the next week or two.
hifi addict, you will know peter then, very nice chap with an SME 3O

 

''I have a choice with my next upgrade between trying a Music First preamp or a NAC252 for which i already have a supercap''.

Be prepared to use your ears and trust them.

Also be prepared for a big shock - you just may end up way better of in the wallet than you could imagine.

I did....

 

stephen, I totally agree and keep a very open mind. If the v1 pre or music first is better in my system then i will not hesitate to buy it. I'm all for saving money!.

 

I was wondering about the Promitheus TVC. I've got one but can't say how it would sound in your system.

If I remember correctly someone sold their £1500 Music First TVC in favour of the Promitheus TVC. Anyway something to ponder about and I agree with other's if you have the chance then demo a TVC. I bought 'blind' but there again the Promitheus was not expensive and has a more than reasonale re-sell value.

jaspal.

 

I probably didnt state the case hard enough... I think the prometheus and the glasshouse TVC are just as good as the Music First one.. and they are both a 1/4 of the price.

Dont buy a music first without hearing the alternatives.... that's my suggestion!

 

To be honest I think it depends... I have a Promitheus ref 4 and a Music First (with the latest T/Xs)- stupid to have both I know and one will have to go, but it does give me in a opportunity to compare them at leisure. I agree they are close in sound, but they are different. In my set-up, with the music I listen to, with my priorities and with my ears, I prefer the the Music First (just). In terms of value for money, there is bo comparison- the Promitheus wins hands-down. I have not heard the Glasshouse.

 

I agree with bottleneck to a degree - have had both - all of them infact but I do think the S&B transformers have the edge - no grain better soundstage i thought, but in terms of value for money - yep the promitheus if only it didn't look like a cigar box. The silver S&B's though are very good indeed. I did however find an active pre (an Audio research) that does the airiness thing I like with passives whilst giving some body and warmth to the sound. To be honest I dont think it comes down to passive is better than active or vice versa anymore - think it is a case of what sound does Sir (or Madam) like?

 

Duplicate posting - spooky

 

Did you buy the Vinyl 1 from Peter? He has had loads of phonostages as he belives CD players are the spawn of the devil. But he always comes back to the Vinyl 1. He will get another one in about a year after trying this years new batch of phonostages.

I would make a slightly bigger short list of preamps, say a couple of passives like the MF and the Anatek (not very well known yet but one to watch out for) a couple of Valve preamps and whatever SS pres you can think of.

A big part of trying the pre amps is to see if they work in your system. A pre might get a fantastic review but if you try it in another system it may sound pants.

 

Yes, this is what I was trying to say.

The sound between all 3 is very similar, not convinced I can readily tell them apart.

The price differences between the MF and the other too is not at all similar! (lets be fair to the MF though, they have distributor and retailer margins to pay)

 

...and they are made in England!

 

certainly not for music reasons. everyone's happy to save £1300 and get pretty much of it.

any S&B based passive i tried was clearly better than promitheus, and i think that the versions (different bent sourced DIYs) i listened might be a tad less refined than music first.

@fro: you have EAR 890 - have you ever tried it with 864? EAR own preamp is a gem, lots of good drive and pace plus beatiful, airy mids.

edit: actually there is no reason why music first would be any better than my current bent: S&B trannies, a decent switch (seiden), silver wiring, WBT connectors.

 

I believe the 864 to be an excellent preamp also. The problem is that the phono stage that it uses is identical to the 834p, which is the phono stage i have just replaced with the vinyl one. Even though the 834p is a very good phono stage I like the vinyl one too much to ever go back.
hifi addict, I did buy the vinyl one from Peter and had an enjoyable morning chatting and listening to music as well.

regards, fro.

 

I 've had the opportunity to listen to a couple of these. The first, a silver wired MFA had a very distinctive sound. There's a thread about it here.

https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?t=13056

The second, a copper wired (supposedly current spec) MFA had to my ears a similar characteristic. I didn't have the chance to look whether it was ringing as much. it sounded as though it was a bit better but was still too obvious for my liking. Of these types of devices the best I've tried was an 'Intact Audio' autoformer volume control.

However, a decent & simple valve linestage gives a better result. One with an output transformer a much better result!

 

i remember the thread mentioned above. lots of virtual abuse and strange arguments, except for the graphs that are known to be rather bad for the TVCs. i measured promitheus and it rings at 27khz, too close to the audible range. the highlight of the thread for me was presenting kondo M77 ($40.000 preamp) as a proof that actives sounds better than passives.