petrol prices...

the truckers should all drive to whitehall, get out, and walk away and get the train back, then we would see some results.

As an aside, I find the attitude of the govt arrogant, do you realise the forthcoming referendum is only the 2nd in history????
Govt needs to realise it is the peoples servant, not its own interest. It is for the good of the people at large, and is not self interested. Time politics changed once and for all.

We need to learn from the french who won't stand for too much govt control...the tax is obscene. Bring em down I say, and put the people back in charge

And I really wish in the fire strikes all the unions suddenly withdrew all govt funding, as it derserved to have done for pissing on unions like that ....a labour govt???????

 

I'm spending around £200 a month in petrol travelling to work.
There is no other way of getting there, no similar jobs where I live and no chance of getting my own place nearer work (still with the parents at 27).
The goverment are on a nice little earner from thousands of people like myself!

At least housing price crashes free up a few houses from the b******s who buy the affordable ones to rent them out.

Ironically rising fuel prices could cause high inflation, triggering the crash I want, allowing me to buy a house near work, thereby reducing my fuel cost!

Truckers are being screwed though. Its very difficult to compete when foreign drivers can come over full of fuel, drive hundreds of miles here and return home without putting any money in the governments pockets.

What has improved since labour came back to power?

 

We can all complain about taxes, but we all want the NHS, state pensions, state schools, transport, keeping safe from people who want to harm us, the streets policing and god only knows what else.
So lets say we don't pay tax on anything, but all pay a proportion of our income. I believe it's about 67% we'd have to payjust to maintain the status quo. I think I know which way most of us would be better off.
When petrol got really stinging for me £250+ a month we reassed, bought a car that was cheaper to run and now pay about £150 with cheaper tax and insurance to boot.

 

lord summit,
i think 67% is way over the mark. the fact is that motorists are a minority out of those who are eligable to pay tax. they get ****ed 6 ways from sunday what with car tax, petrol tax, insurance tax, tax on parts vat on labour for repairs, etc. etc. almost ad infinitum. if this load was shared between everyone not just those with a car (except for a reasonable fuel tax to pay for road maintainence, environmental issues etc.) then i for one would feel better about paying it.
to be honest though government spending is completely uncontrolled. from burrough council members who get more money if they hold their meetings in another town, get travel and food expenses and then cut services and increase council taxes because they 'don't have enough money' to the parlimentary ministers who paper their offices with 60,000 ukp a sq meter wallpaper (it's be cheaper to use 20 pound notes i reckon) and buy antique desks with public funds.
to be honest there's not much you can do about it as referendums are a joke. just take it like a man and occasionally cheat the tax man where you can by way of some vaseline.
depressingly it's the way the world works.


oh yes. the last time the truckers tried to do something they got **** all support from the public after a couple of days and things became inconvienient. this is what those gits in parliament rely on and it works every time.
cheers


julian

 

I think, trying to detatch my obvious feelings here from rational thought, the motorist IS paying too much.

The amount of the tax is unreasonable.
The other taxes on purchasing, car tax, parts, insurance,you name it.
Then there are the fines.

I have a friend who is studinging a long way away and comes home every few weeks, I think he has to pay, I reckon £10 for 100 miles in my car, and his is thirstier, so maybe £40 each way.

That is £80 for one return journey. That is a lot of cash.

I believe people are spending too much on fuel, as a proportion of their income, and its not reasonable or fair. Evidence shows the former.

Sure maybe they could drive more economically, is one solution.

I am liberal in political stance, not affiliated to any group, and am happy to pay for things, indeed I want things, however, I really want a clear cut breakdown of where things are going.

I think its reasonable to ask for this in this day and age.

I cannot understand why eveyone now is wanting more and more of your cash, its not just one thing. Council tax, water companies, the whole lot.

Again, to pay for the increased waste in the system and beaurocracy? There is a lot about, and the tories and press are valid in criticising this.

 

Chaps

I once had a discussion with Claire Short who made it very clear to me that taxation of fuel and vehicles will always remain high and in her opinion should go higher because

a) it raises taxes for schools etc

b) taxes are intended to make you buy less fuel for rnvironmental reasons.

With that as logic, fuel will always be expensive.

Regards

Mick

 

Get used to it guys. You ain't seen nothin' yet!

The oil production peak is long past. Oil production will decline from here on, slowly at first but much faster later.

World oil demand is increasing. Up and coming nations (like China) are demanding a bigger share.

Already in the last two years, demand has exceeded supply on more than one occassion. This is going to become a more frequent occurrence and eventually a permanent one.

Fuel shortages will be upon us in late 2007 or early 2008. The price will of course rocket skywards.

I don't know about you but that's a little too soon to suit my long term planning. I had hoped to stay here for another 5 years before moving to somewhere that makes a car optional.

Ho hum

 

phwew chris, I think you are correct in your diagnosis.

You don't own a telly!! There aren't many of those around, you are not missing too much, but there is SOME good drama around and films. a few times a year!

Corrr no tv and no car. A real downshifter.

They will be asking you to pay your license fee next, even though you don't have a tv

 

chris,
this is one reason i just traded my gas guzzler in for a diesel. there are more alternative ways of fuelling a diesel engine (from coal dust to chip fat) plus the promise of 'bio-diesel'. add this to the fact that diesel isn;t as refined a product as petrol and diesel engines suddenly make so much sense.

mick
i feel it's unfair to heap tax demands on a certain segment of the population just because they have a car. certainly tax them for specific things like environmental damage and road repairs but to tax this segment for things like the nhs and schools is unfair. i can see the reasons for using cigarette and alchohol tax revenue to bolster the nhs and similarly if you have a child of school age then you should pay tax towards education. certainly it would make people examine thier priorities more if there was a direct relationship between the way they lived their lives and the amount of tax they paid.

another thing that would help is decent public transport but that's just a dream.
cheers


julian

 

Julian
I think the NHS spends a fair amount of time and revenue on treating injuries from RTA's. So by you idea of taxing items that may increase an individuals need for treatment (wich i agree with), surely it is fair to use some of the road/fuel tax for the NHS?

 

I can't remember the exact figure, but I was listening to Today on the way into work, and the argument went along the lines of Income Tax would have to be about 67% if we weren't to be taxed on anything else. Remember how much tax you pay on beer, fags, vat, fuel, road tax. capital gains tax, death duty........
Social responsibility vs I'm alright Jack (for now) it's all very well complaining about your lot, but I bet there's a lot of people worse off than you

That's a good idea. Why don't we abolish state education, then everyone can pay for their own. There's no way that would lead to those who have more money getting better schooling than others is there. Do you honestly think that would work. Do you have any idea of the costs of schooling even in the state sector.

 

Whenever I go round to friends houses where a TV is on, everyone in the room looks at the TV instead of looking at and talking to each other. Even when the TV is not on, it tends to be the focus and to dominate the room. My life is so much richer since I gave mine the boot. 18 months now

I still have a car. Unfortunately life here would be intolerable without it. But it is my ambition to go somewhere next where there is sufficient public transport to meet my needs and the daily essentials are within walking distance.

So long as I still have my hifi, I won't miss the car or the TV

They did hassle me for a while. Eventually, after you've written enough letters, they accept that just maybe you are a nutter and don't have a TV. They then stick you on their list to be visited by an inspector but I haven't met one yet. I think after two years they will start sending me snotty letters again and we'll go through the cycle again until they once again conclude that I am a nutter and don't have a TV

 

hmm that's a bit dodgy, are you obliged to write letters to prove it? one must suffice surely, then its up to them to confirm?

Its an odd thing, the telly, some people use it like a radio just as a background, not even watching it all the time. I think that's very strange.

If its on, you give it your attention, I only watch things that are worth watching, good docs, films, drama, I avoid all the shite.

And yes very true, I have been in friends houses, and try to have a talk when its on, and you keep getting distracted by the telly, even if what's on it is shite, its rude, and I have done it myself, I start watching when someone is talking to me, its hard not to. It does 'pull you in', they have psychologists telling them how to ram it down your throats to get your attention. Just take a step back and ask why you attention is being drawn in. its all about excitement and movement, sensory stimulation.

I have to say, I think its wrong too that people get done for trying to use chip oil to not pay fuel tax.
Its one thing having to pay but to fuel your car and get prosecuted for not buying the rip off fuel is highly dubious.
Why should it be legal to say, ok you have a car, you MUST buy fuel and pay the obscene tax? that is going a step too far.

 

penance,
good point...

lordsummit,
all i'm saying is that there should be greater coincidence with the way you live your life and with what the govt screws out of you. having given up cigarettes and alchohol i no longer pay tax on these, i do have a child so i should pay tax for things like their healthcare and education. i'm not suggesting that an education tax would be the sole supporter of education just as i'm not sugesting that healthcare be suported by only smokers, drinkers and motorists,everyone in the country benefits from a good healthcare system and an educated populous however those who are using or are likely to use the system(s) more should have to pay for it. the remainder should be paid for from a global tax (i guess income tax is the closest we have at present).
my main gripe though is with how tax money gets used on non essential ego massaging for ministers and councilors and on uneccessary burocracy.

cheers


julian

 

Don't the NHS try to get money out of car insurance companies for treatment to accident victims?

 

I belive that is a mandatory £35 charge for ambulance collection.
If you make your own way to A&E you dont get the charge.
I think it is part of the insurance that they pay it.

 

apparently, every callout for the ambulance service costs about £800. Regardless of severity, even a cut finger. This is why the whole thing needs to be looked at wrt people knowing what to call one out for.

FYI the london amb serivce uses the old british leyland 4 litre v8 petrol in most of their vehicles, and do 10 to the gallon, automatic box. crazy as you can't get above about 30 mph there.
I have heard backhanders were done. for this. £100 in fuel each vehicle every 2 days.

 

I don't object to the Govt taxing road fuel, we live on a crowded island where many of us drive selfishly, so motoring can be viewed as a luxury. What T's me right off is the yearly rises in fuel tax

This sort of taxing policy hits those on lowest incomes the hardest.

Since losing our manufacturing industry, the employment patterns in the UK have changed radically. Where previously whole neighborhoods would work at the same factories that type of mass employement is rare now. So, let's face it, the very concept of efficient public transport is totally screwed. The car has become a neccessity, it's time the Govt woke up to the fact and started planning accordingly.

Hex

 

The whole spirit of govt is wrong.

The attitude is that the minimum is done, the wheel turns really slowly, even when things happen, the thinking is to respond slowly or not at all, until its too late, then you get a crisis mentality, and people praise the govt for sorting a problem, as . However they caused the problem thro bad governing.

This is the mechanism of the beast, just look and ask yourself if this is your xp in practise, makes sense to me.

so transport, housing, health, roads, rail, immigration, benefits, legal system all slowly go bad, whilst we have to cope with it everyday.

With the demise of our great industrial heritage, we have had great industry and ingenuity largely replaced by faceless shits of pen pushers, non entities of call centre bollux, and every bloody idiot is a consultant on something with an opinion to cream off cash. We are now a nation of softies and wet suited pansies, and truly a 2nd world country that is on the verge of being completely obscured by the might of europe, of course I like our autonomy, but now we really are no longer GREAT Britain. We are going down the tubes.

 

Whinge whinge whinge - think yourselves lucky you can drive at all!

That said, the tax you motorists pay doesn't go back into the roads, and that's wrong. If they want to do tax fairly, it should be put on things that everyone uses equally - NOT food or books, but just about everything else.

While they're at it, the government can privatise themselves too - with a bit of luck they'd go bust and we'd get someone in who isn't an extra in the Muppet Show.

BTW Phil77 - I'm with you on the house prices; the sooner they crash, the better. Devon's full of empty houses bought by rich arseholes to use once a year, and EVERYWHERE has buy-to-let; I hope it all goes belly up BOOM personally; for all you greedy sods who upgraded in a mad panic in the last 3 years when it was plain to see that the houses weren't worth it, well, you only have yourselves to blame.

<<dons flame-bait-proof suit>>