phono stage or step up transformer?

B - no problem, the offer is open if you get access to a car/ or a lift in the future.

my glasshouse is very nice. It now has lots of M-caps and other posh bits. I've used these caps a few times and like them a lot. Have you had your Canary back then?

 

Yep back from . About 70 hours now and improving all the time. Waiting for a replacement pair of WE's as one didnt survive transit and popped as soon as it was plugged in.:yikes:

 

Well, the PH7 is very nice indeed (I think the biggest difference between the two is valve, rather than SS rectification), but surely the "house sound" will still be there? Do you really think spending another three thousand pounds on a PH7 will yield a worthwhile increase in performance?

Also, I'm assuming you have a cart/arm/TT that would do the PH7 justice?

And as for upgrading the CD3, shame on you for spending that much on a CDP in the first place! Very nice spinner though....

DT

 

I can't recommenend the Ear myself, I have done work on them and serviced them for people, the frequency response is not flat, it has a large bass hump, as Tim de Paravicini uses small speakers at home, so he has his gear coloured in the bass to compensate. It isn't actually designed by him, I am not at liberty to say who did though.

The minimax is a fairly mundane design based upon the marantz/dynaco/audio research and many other topologies, its not bad, but from china costs less than £50 to manufacture.

The EAR is also rather cloudy sounding, and the on board transformers ring on square wave tests and sound poor, too.

I use vintage transformers that you can't get now, with nickel cores.

S/B are widely recommended, but can hum, and can be bettered for less from the far east, hashimoto amongst some at half the price, just too expensive for what's on offer. Silver is now cheaper than copper, too, so don't pay the premium, its all profit.

The only real way to go is a totally discrete moving coil head amplifier, not silicon chips, but there are precious few of those around. Even the Graham Slee isn't discrete, its not bad, but a little expensive for what's on offer. Cool sounding.

 

70sman, that is a very interesting perspective.

So what would you go for if you were in the market for a nice sounding phonostage and were not gifted enough to build one yourself?

Thanks for the info, btw!

Jack

 

S&B are very well represented here on ZG. Would be interesting to compare alternatives such as Tamura and Hashimoto HM-3.

 

If that's the way you want to go, get a pair of Naim MC phono cards and a quiet 24v PSU. The circuits are discrete and you can buy a pair used for about £50.

 

Turntable is the VPI SSM,only bought the ARC CD3 and phono stage as the deal I got with trade in,was to good to resist at the time,also had just been made redundant so I needed cheering up and could not think of a better way
At the moment am still burning in the Frey i/c's and Heimdall speaker cables,they have less than 100hrs and again did get a very good deal,"grey" imports from the states do significantly reduce the cost and lets face it what goes wrong with cables.

5K does get an awful lot of records/CD's and in T/Wells there are 2 very good places with quite large stocks of vinyl.

GJO.

 

Well, I think most people would recommend that you stick with the PH5 until you upgrade the deck & arm (assuming you're using the JMW9?). I can see the two being a good match performance wise. The Ref 7 would be overkill until you got the TNT6/JMW12.5i (which in itself, is probably overkill). Of course, upgrading is rarely ever a linear process, and you may of course have to make do with one or the other, unless your redundancy package was generous of course!

Not aware of any vinyl dealers in TW. Who/where are they?!

DT

 

How much do you want to spend, Jack? tube or transistor?

Personally, I don't think most tube phonostages are upto much cop, they are mostly derivatives of designs done in the 60s, and can be prone to all sorts of problems if not done right, frequency and phase problems, noises and hums. Especially chinese stuff, on the whole it is pretty poor, and support and servicing is nigh on non existent. Also, most tube ones I have heard with active RIAA don't sound very good, and this is 95%.

Most modern hifi equipment is quite poor, it works and looks nice, but it is cheaply made in taiwan or china. You could do far worse than a Naim NAC or even integrated with phonostage, it is all discrete.

One thing that will shock you is SP wound components transformers. I had to analyse why one failed. I pulled it apart. It is designed to be only just adequate electrically, and has just a few layers of windings, the bare minimum, to minimise leakage from windings, GENERALLY the more the better.

These are used in the silly money border patrol amps from gary jews, they cost around £20 each per transformer when ordered by a few, £40 in ones, and are insulated with paper masking tape of all materials, that really is poor, and they measure appallingly, and people think they are good. It pains me to think people are getting the wool pulled over their eyes by this sort of thing, but its rife in the industry. the 60s amplifier makers would turn in their graves. They knew how to build transformers. When paying 1000s for an amplifier, I would expect transformers to cost 100-200 each, not 20 quid.

Having said that, there is one from china I am going to try, but its a western design, will report later when I can find one.

To a certain extent, the cream has risen to the top, however most modern companies are there because of their marketing. It can make or break them.

The old designers largely had it right first time, then they worked out ways to make it cheaper and cheaper, and its been going downhill ever since.

Vinyl's heyday was in the 70s, so ideally look there, some old japanese transistor stuff is really superb, and had proper decent phonostages, trouble is by this time, its old and may be reliabilty problems and sourcing parts, which is a big pain.

I would look to some small British makers in the 1980s, you could do far worse with a Tom Evans microgroove, which is an all in one MC stage, but sadly not usable as it stands for MM.

Graham Slee's Gram 2SE is stonking value for money, combine that with a fairly cheap Denon or ortofon step up transformer and you will be sorted.

Just about as good as an ERA, but chicken money, and the ERA is going through many changes to comply with lead free ,which is driving many makers around the bend and causing sleepless nights and much work indeed.

DIYhifi supplies cole is rather good, there is a prebuilt option, and one going on clearance, or pay another diy company to have one built, the only real way though is to build one yourself, its not too difficult but just takes patience and a big learning curve.

 

delphini in ads

 

Sorry I have been really busy lately...
70sman the answer to how much i want to spend is "as little as possible" but I guess something i the region of 4-500 pounds or less (2nd hand) is ideal.

I have been looking for the EAR because I had it on a trial and I liked it a lot. I would like something with a little less background hiss (maybe a bit tighter in the bass but that is not too bad actually) but otherwise I quite liked it.

On the experience I had I much preferred the tubed EAR to the tranny MG+. The latter sounded too clinical and dry to my tastes. Maybe it is all a matter of synergy with my equipment, who knows?

I would like to try something like the MiniMax or the Icon Audio PS1 but they are very hard to get hold of to experiment before parting with the cash.

huuge thanks for the tip. the delphini has mixed reviews and i fear it may be another case of dry tranny sound. Les at Walrus thinks the Dino walks all over the Delphini... not sure but there you go...

cheers everyone for all your help!
Jack

 

I actually forgot to ask something... forgive me...

Some of you told me here that the transformers in the MC version of the EAR are quite cheap... meaning they are not the best sounding and are actually cheap to buy.

My question than is: would it be easy to upgrade the transformers on the EAR 834P (MC) and would this be something worth doing and that would yield good results? Anyone tried it?

Cheers guys!
Jack

 

Not aware of any vinyl dealers in TW. Who/where are they?!


There's one called "Criminal Records" don't know the road name but if you come out of McDonalds turn right and just follow the path round the corner it's on the right,30-40yds,across the road is the "Long player" and there is another one in Camden road.

Visted Criminal today,obtained 24 LP's and a dozen CD's at pretty good prices,they seem to get quite a good selection and have a wants list as well.

GJO.

 

Jack,

Don't know if anyone has mentioned it but you should get a stage with variable loading such as a used Delphini first. Koetsu loading is very much a matter of personal choice. Whilst 100 ohm is the nominal optimum, many prefer 47k and anything in between. The Delphini could be bought for experiments and moved on once you have decided on your personal preference.

 

Jack, there's a counter-argument that drives minimalist phono design that dip switches and other adjustments merely degrade the sound. TEAD would be one example requiring factory return or a knowledgeable engineer to adjust it to your then current cartridge.

If you want to get another perspective on the 834P with and without the internal transformers in use you're welcome to come and have a listen to my set-up. PM me if it helps.

 

Paul,

I'd go with a minimalist design. But only after I had decided on my loading preference - not before.

FWIW, Tom Evans takes upwards of six weeks to make the adjustments ususally.

 

If you are very lucky also depends on his alcohol/forgien substance intake as to wether you get a civilised phone call or not

 

:lol:

Well I am not inclined towards the MG+ sound...

Paul L that's very kind of you. Where in Surrey are you? I am not far (London central(ish)) so maybe we could work something out. I need to get my head in order on what I will do ie some people told me to upgrade the amp and get one with a good onboard stage... I find that a bit limitting but maybe it is a way to go.

So Paul you reckon the step up transformers by EAR are much better than the transformers used in the EAR 834P? Would the two (834P+Step Up) be better than the EAR 324? Because at the prices you end up paying for both we are probably not far from a second hand 324 are we?

One other thing: when we get stuff from the US is it easy/inexpensive to change the PSU voltage from 120V to 220V or is this something costly, not advisable? If it is easy it could open another avenue where to search in...

Thank you very much everyone!! :notworthy
Jack

 

Jack, I think you're right to get out and listen. Try a few dealers, make a point of listing those you're interested in and talking to them or pm folks and ask them what they think. I would not publicly post what I really think of one or two for example and I suspect I'm no different from others on here.

It's good advice to get an amp with an onboard stage, you lose flexibility but you avoid paying for a separate box and connections. Others will know better than I which are good examples.

I've no idea about the 324 v 834P/step-up. I do know that for a long time dealers hassled TdP to produce a better phono stage which lead to the 88 or something or other. I loaned my MC3 to my dealer who put it with his 834P Deluxe and compared the two set-ups for a few weeks. IT was not conclusive either way, mainly different.

I've also heard some beautiful, rare and vintage silver step-ups into my 834P but they were not for sale and cost the owners £1K+ years ago. Again, if something like an 834P suits you then you can explore this avenue in the future.

I wouldn't argue the 834P to be the best stage in the World or that I'll have it long term. It's the most preferable of those I have tried so far and is not the weakest link in my system. The biggest attribute was the way it opened a lot more of my classical records where every solid state stage I tried saturated and distorted things without my realising. I did not know this was happening until I heard records open up dynamically and cleanly and it took me by surprise. For years I had many records which I dismissed as poorer than they are. I suspect we all gloss over records because we have a mental picture of them. I can't trust the opinions I formed many years ago with previous set-ups.

I'm close to J.10 of the M25. Basically you could hear an 834P in another system and the internal trannies compared with the MC3.