PioneerA400GTE

I'm picking this amp up from Tone on sunday, I'm going to need some new speakers for it, anyone got any suggestions for speakers worth looking at in the £200 kind of range. I'll be looking at s/h aswell so will take any suggestions on board.
Cheers,
HM

 

s/h Dynaudio 42 or 52 may be worth a shot
but make sure you audition them, a weak source will really show up with dyn's

 

mmmm how big is your space?

if biggish...
How about a nice easy to drive pair of mission 752?
easy to drive, should match well with the pioneer I would have thought.

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/archive/perl/416_printreview.htm

thats what Id go for at that money, unless you need standmounts.

Chris

 

hmm yeah room is quite small about 3.5metre square, so was leaning toward standmounts as a better option.
Thing is I have an old Sansui CD player and a old NAD TT, going to upgrade CD player and get myself a phono stage (from what i've read about A400 and vinyl) at some point so don't want anything too revealing quite yet.
Had considered new MS902's?
HM

 

ive heard nothing but good things about the pioneer phono stage, and ive recently got a debut and it sounds rather good, although have also tried it with a phonobox SE which was nicer but not enough to justify £90

 

ok thats pretty small.

a pair of standmounts would go down a treat then.

characterwise, I would err towards warm instead of clinical. This is with my experience of the standard (non-modified) 400. It could be a touch revealing, and needs a whiff of warming up IMO.

Given that you're looking at upgrading so many components, I would reccomend something like...

1) keeping the a400 phono stage.. try the 40 quid project one to see if theres a big leap. If not, dont change it yet.
2) Keeping the Nad TT. What cartridge does it have? If this has a very very cheap cart, it would be a sensible place to start.
3) getting rid of the CDP asap. Rory would be a good person to ask about budget second hand decks. A marantz 6000ose might be had for around 100?
4) speaker wise, a pair of tannoy '6' series standmounts would be great. These have got dual concentric horn tweeters and you can get them for about 50-80 second hand. Theyre as good as a new pair of speakers for 150-200ish IMO. I quite like mission speakers too when on a budget. P Birkett knows more about which standmounted missions will give you the best bang per buck. They can be a bit cold in a bad acoustic though (generalisation). If you have a wooden floor I'd look for something warmer.

NB Ask Rory about the MS speakers. He knows this brand well, and rates certain models highly I know.

As I said earlier though, given you've got so much to buy, Id be trying to get it all second hand if I were you. If you make any mistakes you can sell-on without losing anything.... see the ''buying blind'' thread.

Finally... If you asked me what system Id get with that amp...
1) Tannoy 609 (80 quid?)
2) Marantz cd63ose (80 quid ?)
3) replace the cart if really cheap and crap, and audition a 40 quid project phono stage to see what level the internal one performs at.
4) Finally I would buy some DNM reson for speaker cable and interconnects. I would merely buy 2 extra metres of the speaker cable and make interconnects out of it. The speaker cable is only 7 quid a metre.
5) oh yeah, make sure you get some speaker stands! something solid..

Thats my 6pence worth

 

Matthew - the story goes that the reason the ISO phono stage came about is they were trying to design a phono stage for use with the A400, because everything else about it was great but the phono stage sucked. Only problem was they went overboard somewhat and it ended up costing more than the amp

 

Thanks for the advice chaps. Bottleneck - lots to think about there, cheers. The TT itself is alright i think, the cart is an Ortofon OMB 5E which came with the deck when I bought it off ebay for £80. The deck was a unopened 1994 model I think so I don't think the cart can be that hot. doesn't look too special. I'll give it a go anyway when I get the amp and see how it sounds, chances are its going to be alot better than what I have now.
I had been a bit worried about what i/c's to buy so your suggestion about the DNM sounds good, is it just a case of soldering plugs onto the end? (my electronics diy is not too good!)
I'll keep an eye out for the CD players you mentioned, I'll be keeping the sansui for a little while so look forward to the improvement when I get that changed.
The room is my bedroom so its carpet and big bed so going to be fairly soft acoustically. I'll look out for your speaker recommendations.
Thanks again.
HM

 

hiya again HM

yeah, an interconnect is.... the soldering equivelant of changing a lightbulb. Ask us when you're ready, no probs. There is literally just two solders per RCA plug. Thats it.

NB I heard Tannoy 609's with a P400 and a Marantz CDP in the mid 90's. It sounded so good I got the bigger floorstanding 611's for myself!

NNB Another good person to PM is rejoyce - regarding off-board phonostages. He recently did a review of about 5-6 for hifi+...

Hopefully someone will put up a post about the best sub 100 cartridges. I only really know them from 150+.

It would probably be worth putting up seperate threads on all those points when you're ready to move on them.

Cheers
Chris

 

The OM5E cart also ships with the Pro-Ject Debut II and is a reasonoble starting point. Didn't realise the 5E had been around for so long - I suppose carts don't really change much, technology-wise. Might be worth upgrading later on down the line - I honestly haven't bothered - the 5E on my Debut II sounds enjoyable enough to me, but I'm sure could be improved if I wanted to.

The deck isn't based on the Rega P2 by any chance, is it - the current NAD 533 is based on this IIRC.

 

Sherin, The TT is a NAD 5120. Don't know much about it to be honest as I bought it pretty blind off ebay before I discovered the joys of pestering you lot for advice!Seems to do alright though and if the 5E is standard on a DebutII it can't be too bad so I'll probly keep it.
Bottleneck...thanks again...it only takes one of me to change a lightbuld so guess i could turn my hand to soldering! where would I get the RCA plug from...same place? recommendation on those?
Speaker wise...managed to listen to some quadsIIL today, not with my amp granted, but what a lovely sound! Also had a listen to some AE's, MA's and some Missions all around the £170 mark but not with my stuff so didn't make any descisions. Fella in sevenoaks, swansea branch said I could bring my amp in and try some speakers with it, they didn't have much of a range but might take him up on this to get an idea of different sounds of different models/manufacturers, and then shop around, exploitative I know but I'm skint! I guess Quads have not been around long enough to hit the second hand market yet, so presume I couldn't get them sub £300. Now looking out for the Tannoys though so thanks for that recommendation.
All comments useful chaps, many thanks.
HM

 

Hi again!

So much with this boils down to budget. Tannoy 609's are great speakers, and a bargain at the 60 pounds (approx) you would pay for them.

If your budget is 300 though, then now you can look at standmount speakers that would have retailed at 500-800.

The most important thing is to maintain a good match with the amp. I dont mean in performance terms, more that many speakers need powerful amplifiers, and often more expensive ones need even more power!

nb
check out the classifieds at www.hififorsale.com - theres a search engine there which makes looking for what you want very easy.
For ex-dem kit try www.ex-dem.co.uk. This second site is better for new products.

nnb One thing Id like to say is.. dont fall into the trap of thinking it has to be better new because technology has changed and new things are always better.... CD players made a quantum leap (IMO) about 5 years ago, but amps and speakers havent (IMO).

nnnb!
At 300 quid you've got fantastic standmounts like Epos Es14's to consider. In the right room with the right amp and the right source they are bloody fantastic, and IMO a league above what you might get new for that kind of cash. I dont know what their new retail was.... 600-700? something like that.

here is an advert for them on the first site I mentioned.


EPOS
ES14 Price: £275.00

RRP: £600.00


Description
Immaculate, boxed, EPOS ES14 loudspeakers in black ash . Suit Naim amps especially - will include stands. Selling due to upgrade - had to spend £2000.00 to get anything much better.

Contact: Glenn
Seller: Private seller
Telephone: 01603 891089
Telephone:

Email: [email protected]

Location:
Norfolk
UK


Advert No: 27022
Date placed: 04/01/2004

 

Tom, you friend has the said beastie in his possesion now, many thanks for the deal. Tone

 

Cheers Tone, taking posession on tuesday. Looking forward! got a headache over speaker choice now though!
Many Thanks,
Tom

 

Tom! no headaches my friend.

Get some Epos Es14's for 275. If you dont like them (yeh rite!) flog them for 275. Such is the wonderfullness of second hand hifi.

Heres a link to a bloke waxing lyrical about his epos es14's, which he used with a marantz cd63 and an audiolab 8000S. Well, 2 out of 3 aint bad!!

I'd take a Pioneer A400 over an audiolab integrated any day of the week.

http://www.soundstage.com/systems/systems200003.htm

PS
Im not trying to put you off the quad speakers, but you'll buy them for 300, and sell them for 100 in a year or 2. Also I dont think theyre as good as epos es14s (again IMHO), which are good enough to be used on 2k amps and 2k cdps (again imo!!)


Chris

 

Chris, firstly apologies....I think I've been getting a bit too keen, looks like realistically i'm looking at a £200 budget for speakers. The Epos' after postage is going to be pushing £300 and also got a bit of approval factor going on as my girl says they and the stands look awful
Right so I'll stick to £200...anything raise the same level of enthusiasm as the EPOS? something with stands would be ideal and I could push another £40 or so on it if it included stands and postage. Something good looking would also be a bonus!
Thanks for your help so far and apologies for my realisation of skintness!
HM

What about these for example?

Mission 751 Price: £140 ono

RRP: £450 inc stands


Description
Mission 751 speakers with matched Mission stands. Classic mid '90s award winner. Sound great, owned by me from new and excellent condition with orginal box etc. Compact size good for bookshelf although better on matched stands (will split though), and could be great for rears in AV set up. Will flatter most systems, and can live with good stuff as well. Loads of 5/5 reviews on audioreview.com

 

or these....

MONITOR AUDIO
MA700/GOLD Price: £90

RRP: £400


Description
THIS PAIR OF FINE SPEAKERS HAS THE FRONT COVER OF ONE SPEAKER MISSING. APART FROM THAT THEY ARE IN EXCELLENT WORKING ORDER


Monitor Audio
Silver 3i Price: £200 ono

RRP: £300

Description
Monitor Audio Silver 3i - Cherry Immaculate condition as new, original box. Technical Specifications Tweeter 1" Gold Dome Cabinet Design Front Ported Bass/Mid Driver 1 x 5.5" (C-CAM®) Frequency Response (Hz) 45Hz-25Khz Sensitivity (dB) 1 watt @ 1 metre 88dB Impedance (Ohms) 8 Power Handling RMS (W) 80W Weight approx Kg/lb 5.8/12 External Dimensions cm 35Hx20Wx21D

And another thing...how do you get 609's for £60! only ones I've found are these...

Tannoy
609 Concentric Speakers Price: £300ono

RRP: £750


Description
Serviced/checked by Tannoy - these speakers are in very good working condition. They are unusual looking and well finished with no scratches they also come complete with stands. Could be used for Music Studio purposes. Phone for details and ask for 'Bob'.

They be worth it if I managed to get them for £200? or do they exist for £60?

 

I like Mission 751.

In fact I like the 752 and 753 aswell.

Theyve got a lively sound that wont tax a non-monster amp.

Very engaging and enjoyable. The 751's should be small enough not to overpower a smallish room too. Not a bad choice at all.

I bought a pair of Tannoy floorstanders.. trying to remember the model....611 or 628 I cant remember. Anyway, they were the larger more expensive floorstanding brother of the 609. I got them about 7 years ago for 350. Id expect to get a pair for about 200-250 thesedays.

There are the smaller Epos speakers the ES11's which work brilliantly in a room up to what I would call a typical british bedroom double size!. They get lost IMO in big rooms though. I dont know if you would appreciate the holographic quality of Epos speakers as much as me. I hope so!. I know Im far from alone with that. You can get ES11's for about 125-150.

The Tannoys or Missions are more....kind of mainstream sounding, and in some ways safer... I think.

Dont know why more people arent joining in with this thread?!?!



Chris.

Dont forget the stands

 

I don't know how it compares to the a400gte, but I use a Pioneer a300r Precision amp with a pair of the original Tannoy M2 Mercurys (resemble the current Mx2m I think). Sounds fine to me. Decently clear, open and natural and nothing (thankfully) really sounds too bright, harsh or unpleasant.

 

Ive heard those M2s sounding pretty decent.

Its amazing how much speaker you can have for beer money.

My best advice would be to try to avoid metal tweeters at this price point and with this budget of amp. It would to my ears (which arent doing the listening!!) sound a tad harsh. Thats not always the case of course, but like most stereotypes theres a trend there somewhere.

I hope you change the CDP too. If you dont, I cant see you hearing the benefits from all this.

Maybe this gross exageration will help..
tannoy m2/609 quite warm nice for rock
epos es11 quite monitor like, very see-through. bass shy in big spaces.
mission 751 refined and classy sounding. a little polite perhaps.
...or not!
Lin Kans are reputed to work well with your amp. I wouldnt reccomend the combination personally though, as they do like a lot of power (IME)

the missions are probably the safest bet. Theyre easy to sell on ebay if you dont like. They are like a pizza.. everybody could like it.
Im suprised pbirkett hasnt been along by now. Hes tried many different mission standmounts.