Please Mr, can you point me in the right....

Ok, it's owning up time. I AM NOT HAPPY WITH MY SET-UP. Before I describe what's wrong, please bear in mind the following most salient points : I live in the Canaries, so auditioning kit is a no-no; the missus is an interior designer so I cannot move speakers, sofas etc. too much.
System as it stands : LP12 (Lingo 1 and Cirkus) , Ittok LV 111, Denon DL103Pro, Black Cube SE phono stage, TCI Cobra I/Cs, Sugden A21a and Totem Arros firing across the 6m x 4m room. Deck on Mana Phase 5, Amp on phase 4, Speakers, BC and Lingo on Phase 1. Totem Arros not mass loaded and flooring is wood parquet.
What's right : beautiful highs and mids, imaging, clarity - I love my Sugden and my Mana.
So what's wrong - the bass line, it doesn't boogy and I really have to listen hard for it.
Ideas :
1, More powerful amp (Sugden A21SE ?) because according to Totem the speakers (96db) respond positively to more watts, especially in the bass . The Canucks themselves like the Rega Mira and the SIM Audio 15?.
2. Upgrade Lingo 1 to Lingo 2
3. Change Phono Stage e.g. Loricraft Missing Link ?.
4. Use a Sub (Sugden's recommendation). - Not really on because of low WAF.
5. Change speakers to something like Living Voice ?
6. Buy a DVD and watch home cinema like the rest.

Any kind souls out there ?

Chris

Can anyone help ?

 

first thing I would look to is your wood parquet floor.

Could the mrs be persuaded to get a nice seagrass carpet (or another type in?)

If she wails like a banshee, how about a rug of truly epic proportions, with loads of underlay underneath it. This is what I've done, and its not as good as carpet, but better than nothing.

Nothing screws with your bass more than a hard floor IMO

 

agreed! I went for an Afghan number - lots of WAF points as we chose it together ... aaahh

 

Totems, while I rather like them, are rather insensitive (I think you mean 86dB, and that's a bit optimistic). And the Arrows have a tiny bass driver to be driving a room 6 x 4m. I think you're really looking for more sensitive speakers or a sub

 

You've got to simplify maaannn.

To much stuff, I have no idea what it sounds like but to much frigging stuff, get shot of everything but the deck and then a nice pre/power amp with phono stage.

See if I ain't wrong.

 

Gary, aren't you telling him to get rid of a phono stage and an integrated amp, which is two boxes, and get a pre/power, which is, er, two boxes? Or maybe you meant for him to get rid of the Mana?

Actuall I would get rid of the Mana, but only under the Arro's. This may help. See if Gary ain't wrong.

 

Get a good turntable.

 

I'd suspect the Sugden amp; there have only been two times I've been disappointed with Totem speakers and on one of those they were driven by Sugden - what I heard roughly tallies with your description (and no, I never heard Totem with Sugden and liked it).

 

I don't think your wooden floor is the problem because the wood I imagine is laid upon concrete,if it was suspended floor then maybe a problem,it's probably helping the ambience of the room.so I would agree with the comments on small driver in a large room,so would agree on need a sub.Subs now come in some real wood venirs,maybe get one to match the floor?.

 

The Cirkus mod removes bass, and your speakers aren't the bassiest.

 

It that first big reflection playing old harry with the dirrect wave.....Our friend above is to blame...[he he]....

A good rug is a start try breaking up the room refletions....

Try moving the speakers closer to the rear wall....

What type of speaker cable are you using ?

I don't think its an equipment problem .....you liked it all in the dem room ?

 

Starting with the basics, which loading do you have on the Black Cube?

Way back in the mists of time, I heard a Sugden amp (48, IIRC). It was fine in exactly the areas you mention, but it was not exactly a boogie champ. Try substituting a different amp to see whether that helps with the boogie.

The 'I have to listen hard for bass' may be a function of preferred loudness and/or speaker/room matching. The Arros have a bass driver which is definitely on the small side for your room size. They also don't have a much of an elevated bass. If you listen at low volume, the Fletcher-Munson curves will mean that your hearing is simply less sensitive to low frequencies than to higher ones. Only a loudness button on the amp, tone controls or a different loudspeaker can help you if that is the root cause of your problem.

 

I'd agree with that .....never thought to ask volume levels.

 

Sounds like an ideal room for some ATC 50As, eh Markus?

 

Is there a room which is not ideal for some ATC speakers? If Chris listens at low volume, I'd actually recommend Harbeth.

 

I've come across one or two rooms which seem unsuitable for any type of hi-fi!

 

Too bad they're all in your flat, then.

 

Ho ho.

 

Oh yes, the Loricraft Missing Link seems to be an excellent phono stage. It should be less bright/darker than a Black Cube.

 

Hi, Markus et al.,
I have my Black Cube set at 100 ohms.
My speaker cable is "wanky" wire, silver coated copper military grade stuff. I previously used Van den Hul 122 which it walked all over in a detail/clarity sort of way
My floor is indeed real oak wooden parquet in a rather tasty herringbone pattern i.e. each block of wood individually stuck to the granite/cement flooring below - cost me more than the hi-fi and is certainly not a perfectly flat reflective surface like the modern stuff!
I'm beginning to reach the conclusion that too much clarity in the individual units of my chain (Cirkus, Black Cube, Sugden and small Arros, all on Mana) has led to them all combining to give an over hygienic sound so this weekend I shall set out to contaminate the sound a bit and get back to basics, starting with with my old Sugden A4811 which has more welly than the A21 which the Arros are supposed to prefer and a by no means tight bass. Then I shall mass load the Arros and take it from there. If I reach any useful conclusions, will post them for your much appreciated perusal.
Cheers,
Chris