Possible Vinyl newbie

Theoretical question: if you were thinking of getting into vinyl for the first time, and buying a turntable and all the other necessaries, would you spend the most you could afford to get the best possible start?

Or go for best 2nd hand starter system on offer in case the experience was a disappointment? thanks.

 

The experience will NOT be a disappointment. Having said that don't spend too much on the hardware as you will need to buy sqillions of LPs. So get a Rega P3 and have fun!

Cheers

Rich

 

I found that there was a minimum I had to spend on the phono stage before I could enjoy vinyl.

I didn't find such a harsh situation with turntables arms and cartridges.

 

Within reason the more you spend the better you get – vinyl replay has a far better law of diminishing returns than many other audio items as it is based far more on proven mechanical engineering rather than snake oil. The better the deck the more you get off the record and the quieter the replay is. It really is as simple as that. One criticism many newcomers make with vinyl is the ‘crackle and pop’, the better the deck the quieter the surface, by the time you get to say a Spacedeck like mine grading records becomes quite hard as the thing is so damn quiet!

The Rega P3 is a very nice starter deck indeed (buy the Rega wall shelf too if you get one!), but if you can stretch to the next level up, i.e. a second hand Spacedeck, LP12, Gyro etc you certainly won’t regret it and will have something good enough to upgrade later with a top quality arm and cart. Phono stages are important too, but I’d prefer a good deck into an ok phono stage than the other way round.

Tony.

 

If, as I suspect, there may be more than a passing interest in classic classical recordings a decent deck will make the difference between thinking that a specialist CD transfer (from say Pearl) is really rather good to thinking that it is what it is but it is not the recording.
(Slightly overstated as I went straight from a 20 year old Dual to a Spacedeck - though still into the same 'ok phono stage')

 

From my experience, the cart and phono stage can make a huge difference.

I was a bit disapponted with my first TT setup - 2nd hand Regad Planar 2, RB250 arm (w/ Incognito rewire), Ortofon 520 Mk II cart into MF X-LPS phono stage. Sounded listenable but certainly didn't blow me away, and was nowhere near my Meridian CD player.

When I swapped the XLPS for a Slee Gram Amp 2, I realised how bad the XLPS was! The Gram Amp was much better, but still the sound wasn't that inspiring compared to CD.

It wasn't until I swapped the Ortofon for a Sumiko Blue Point No. 2 high output MC cart that my jaw dropped and I suddenly saw the light.

Now with my Pink Triangle Export deck, same cart and arm (tho with Michell TechnoWeight) and Gram Amp 2, the sound is way better than just about any CD player that I've heard (in most ways, though perhaps not all).

And now I've been playing with an EAR 864 I've been reawakened to the benefits of good phono stage - the EAR is just STUNNING as a phono stage. The Slee is great, but the EAR made me fall in love with vinyl all over again. I'm not 100% convinced by the line stage in the 864, but the phono section is marvelous (I'm going to be seeking out an 834p very shortly!)

I'm curious what the difference would be with, say, a Spacedeck with the same setup, but the Pink has a great reputation and I'm not sure the hassle and expense would be worth it, so I'm holding off. Next step after preamp and phono is a new cart. The Sumiko sounds wonderful but doesn't seem to be quite perfect for tracking - large crescendos and big horn blasts can cause some crackle that I'm almost certain (though infuriatingly not 100% certain...) isn't on the disc. I'm hoping a Blue Point Special (or maybe if I'm feeling particularly flush, a Blackbird...)

Dunc

 

What about if I started with a cheapish deck, say a project, then upgraded cartridge and phono stage as time went on? How much of a limiting factor is the arm and deck itself?

 

concentrate on buying as much vinyl as you can .spend not much more than 200 ukp on a deck etc. s/h would be best. get a DL110. once you've a few hundred records then maybe think about pushing the boat out a little more

 

While that's very sensible advice, I would argue that nothing fuels the desire to buy more vinyl than a really good TT rig.

Dunc

 

why not look for a good used Rega P2 or P3. stick something like a denon dl110 on it, it will not dissapoint. Get your vinyl collection started, then if bitten you can think about upgrades.SAy a Techno deck, NAS or whatever and take the rega arm up with you. It saves you spending lots till you are sure you want to go the vinyl route. A good used P3 would sell for for what you paid for it later anyway. (Or system deck if you can find a good one)
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue15/denondl110.htm

 

Alan, I could lend you my Systemdek II - interested?

Others, how would you rate that? I can't recall much else about it. Shrink got it set-up again, so its in working condition. I'm not looking to sell, as I can see myself going back to vinyl some day - just not yet.

Oh, and I still have the Pioneer PL 12D from the dark ages!

 

That Pioneer would surprise you I think. There wasn't much between it and a P3 I had, the Rega did it's thing of course, and when given a better cart did start to pull away, but as a starter deck you can do far worse. If I had to make a really cheap system that sang, the PL12D would probably be in it

 

I had a PL 12 and sold it a few years back whats good about them is they had a good arm which i put an SME headshell and a Shure V15 cartridge. This was in the 70s so moved on a bit then. Think I prefer cd though. Jimbo.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pioneer-PL-12...oryZ3283QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PIONEER-PL-12...oryZ3283QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PIONEER-PL-12...oryZ3283QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Going for peanuts. Can't lose anything.Jimbo.

 

Hi Alan,

Not much to add that hasn't already been mentioned. I'd personally suggest the second strategy but with the proviso that if you get too cheapskate, you'll only succeed in convincing yourself that vinyl's rubbish after all.

The Pioneers are good decks, but long in the tooth by now, so make sure you get a good one if you go that route. Others in a similar vein to look at are the Trio KD-1033 and the Sansui SR-222. 2nd hand the Regas are definitely a good bet as they are virtually bomb proof. Or new, one of the Pro-Jects.

Actually 2nd hand Pro-Jects are very good value as they don't keep such high 2nd hand prices as the Rega and are equally bomb proof. If you go for a second hand Pro-Ject - go for one of older discontinued models up from the Debut - You might find a Mk1 Xpression, a Model 2 (not to be confused with a Debut 2), and RPM4 or if you get lucky a 2.9 Classic.

The Debuts are great value for money (and with some tweakery can give a surprising performance), but the arm is fixed height - and its fixed for the Ortofon OM cart - which is quite a low (physically) cartridge, so you are limited in terms of cartridge upgrades. Same with the platter - its pressed steel which means pretty much MM cartridges only - though there are replacement balanced, cast Ali and Ali/Vinyl platters available, that will work on the Debut and make a big improvement too.

The Pro-Jects further up the range have fully adjustable arms (pretty good ones too) and either cast Ali, cast Ali/Vinyl or MDF/Vinyl platters. And as I say can be great value second hand. A Pro-Ject Model 2 for example is easily a match for a Planar 3 and rarely goes for more than £100 on fleabay.

 

Interesting... why so?

Dunc

 

MCs have mucho more powerful magnets - don't mix all that well with a pressed steel platter. Not such an issue with MMs.

 

Thanks for the advice folks.... Unle Ants, as you know, I was very tempted by your RPM9 package but then suddenly got frightened by the possibility that I wouldn't like it after spending a fair whack.

So have bought a 2nd hand Xpression + MC15 + phonobox SE for an awful lot less, even if I move on from there quickly in either direction its not a heartbreaking amount of money.

 

Alan,

Not a bad little starter setup at all. It'll certainly give you a taste

Now hurry up and get addicted ... there's only one RPM9 left :JPS: