Pre-amps (again!)

Hi,

I'm after a pre for a Rogue Stereo 90. This has been recommended to me but I've never heard it. I'd also like to try a passive (transformer based) pre.

One thing I'd dearly like is a unity gain input so that I don't have to use 2 volumes controls when watching movies. The BlueBerry apparently can be ordered with the "HT" input, as can some of the passive pres.

Any recommendations?

 

dave the vinyl junkie on the WAD forum has a Blueberry Extreme and is really pleased with it, worth a look
http://www.worldaudiodesign.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20332

David

 

Dev

I have used some valve pre amps in the last year including a Quicksilver linestage pre amp with remote control and a Croft Vitale. I must admit I didn't like the Quicksilver because it produces a lot of background hiss, even through a pair of ATC SCM12 with low sensitivity. I also found that two resistors in the power supply section was overheated, not by my fault. Probably they were like that when the original owner had it. With the overheated resistors, the Quicksilver didn't sound very good at all, but after I replaced them, it sounded alright with a slightly lower level of hiss.

The Croft Vitale is very simple inside, using only one ECC81 valve for the line stage. The build quality is poor in comparison to other amps that I have owned and I just couldn't stand the two small mono volume controls with no accurate markings. However the Vitale is very quiet and it is quite transparent. The latest Croft pre amps seem to be better screwed together, there is a review in the current issue of Hi Fi World magazine.

I now use a EAR 834L line stage pre amp. It is very quiet with plenty of gain. It drives a Meridian 557 power amp for the ATC and the sound is superb, much better than the Croft Vitale/Bryston 4BST I tried a few months ago. The volume control and the selector switch of the 834L don't have a quality feel but at the end of the day, it is not a very expensive valve pre amp. A second hand one can be found for under 400 pounds.

There were some reviews by dunkyboy of the Croft Vitale SC, EAR 834L and Audio Innovations L2.

It is quite refreshing to see the 6moons review of the Blueberry valve pre amp. The price US$1495 seems to be very competitive, especially it comes with a valve MM phono stage and the inside looks very well made with quality components from the photos in the review. Have you worked out the total cost including import duty, VAT and shipment for the Blueberry pre amp?

There is a second hand EAR 864 pre amp advertised in pinkfishmedia forum: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18873

The 864 pre amp is similar to a 834L line pre amp and a 834P phono stage together, except the output valve in the 834L section has been replaced with transformers. I don't know what it sounds like, but the seller of the 864 seems to rate it highly. He uses it to drive a pair of active ATC speakers. The attached photo of the 864 pre amp is from Walrus's web site.



Another pre amp which came into mind is the kit offered by Transcendent. I have read some positive comments in zerogain.

http://www.transcendentsound.com/preamp kit.htm



Hon

 

Cheers hifienthusiast,

I have been offered a line only BlueBerry for £860 by . It has a unity gain input, which is important to me.

I've been hearing so many good things about transformer based passive preamps that I thought perhaps I should listen to them before making up my mind.

So at the moment, still undecided which way I'll go. However if I decide to go with a passive pre, it'll be a DIY job.

 

Dev

There is a Rogue 99 pre amp in hififorsale.com:

rogue audio
magnum 99 Price: £1000

RRP: £2495


Description
rogue audio magnum 99 pre amp mint condition boxed with remote plus own power supply

Contact: arthur
Seller: Private seller
Telephone: 07980 9300 32
Telephone:

Email: [email protected]

Location:
essex
UK


Advert No: 66804
Date placed: 14/01/2006

Regards
Hon

 

Now why did you want to post that?!

Must resist... must resist... that seems like a very good bargain.

I know I'm going to regret it but I'm going to pass. I really want that unity gain thing. I'm sick of 2 volume controls.

 

There is an EAR 834L for sale in my local hifi shop for £300.. I'm tempted to go and listen to it now!

 

The eastern electric pre-amps have a good reputation and are coming down in price.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1142452348

 

seems a good place to provoke discussion on desired qualities of pre-amp. hope that's OK Dev

There's (a) inputs, (b) volume control and what else? It puts an extra box in the way, with extra interconnects that both cost and 'add/subtract/distort'. On the otehr hand, where do (a) and (b) get done? Is this done better at the cdp/dac side - and ifs & buts of vol control in digital domain - or on poweramp side?

As per sig., I was prompted to walk on the dac side, where oversampling mitigates against loss with attentuation in the digital domain (according to manufacturer) and use is made of adx for analogue inputs.

Had a try of the Behringer room corrector yesterday. Alanbeeb uses it for all sources [not vinyl] but would be interesting if it also had full attenuation - does it?

 

Ditton, if you want inputs on the cdp/dac would you also need an adc which is yet another box anyway? Also I'm sure the vinyl purist wouldn't want this going through some digital processing.

 

No problem ditton.

If only this had unity gain input. Not too far away from me either for an audition .

 

agreed, but I have an adc built into the Dax, and so does the Behringer - as do some others, and high-qual adc/dac may/maynot disturb signal appreciably. imho, replay from my cassette sounds so much better than it should going into the adc/dac route than it ever has via a pre-amp.

I'm sure that you're right about this predispositon, but if we are getting into room correction the game's up.

 

Thanks Dev. I realise that you need a phono stage - am saving return to vinyl until I'm really old and need a hobby to consume time! I have Systemdek and LPs waiting in loft.

I did try the Vitale SC and that added a certain something from a straightline sort of guy, and reckon this EAR is on same wavelength.

So is this minimalist thing for both vinyl and digital?

 

Dev, it should be extremely easy to convert the 864 (or any other pre, for that matter) for a unity gain input. All you need to do is to solder a couple of cables from one position of the input selector to a pair of outputs. Any competent technician should be able to do that.

That way, you don't have a buffer stage for the HT processor, but those have robust output stages and don't need another buffer.

 

Thanks Markus, my original idea was to use a WAD PAS II with S&B transformers and perhaps a better selector, and it would have been easy to do what you suggested. However, on an EAR, I think any mods would probably make it harder to resell.

Also the WAD would have been a lot cheaper so a lower risk. Now with their demise I thought of Django but that doesn't have enough inputs and MF proper is too expensive for an experiment. I could get the Blackberry (on sale/return), Rogue 99 pre or the EAR mentioned above for less.

 

So undo the mod if you want to resell. Or buy a Naim pre, the current range have unity gain inputs, but you'd need an outboard phono stage.

 

dev,
something to consider is possibly separating the hi-fi and av totally like i've done. i found a cheap av processor/ speaker package from richers and sold the expensive surrounds / center etc. it sounds aobut 70% as good as it did before but to be honest it doesn;t really bother me that much.
that way you can widen your search for a pre and get what you want and not compromise.
just a thought.
cheers


julian.

 

Hi,

You can see if you can borrow one for a listening test and then have one build to your needs by MF Audio. This happens more frequently than you think, we never had a request for unity gain passtrough, but often Tape loops are requested.

For Django, you could drill extra holes for addifional RCA Jacks if you want them.

Ciao T

 

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

T, that's sort of what I wanted to do originally. I think I'll just take delivery of the power amp first. In due course I should be able to compare the MF Audio pre and the BlueBerry if certain ZG member's offer still stands. I can then make an informed decision.

I was starting to rush because I saw certain preamps for sale which seem like an opportunity too good to miss.

 

This one here has a Unity gain input:
https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?t=11553