Project Debut Phono SB

Hi all,

I'm looking quite hard at this turntable at the moment. The reason being that I've borrowed a friends Bush MTT-1 ( yes that What HiFi award winning jobbie) and have to say that it doesn't half sound bad through my headphone rig.

It lets itself down in some areas over the Dual currently in my speaker based HiFi though. For a start you an “hear†the motor during quiet passages of the vinyl, I don't mean it's loud, I mean you can hear it as a low frequency hum through the headphones (and What HiFi ignored this how??!!), clearly the motor is putting so much vibration through the platter the stylus is picking it up and playing it back as rumble. My Dual during the same passages is silent

Also, the fact the thing looks extremely cheap (which it is) does nothing for my enjoyment of vinyl, what with half the record sticking out of the side!! So, I've been looking to get a second turntable, this would be simple but I've got a few criteria. It must have a built in phono stage (like the Bush) as I can't be bothered having let more leads (power and phono) in my system, it must be fairly cheap, it must have easily switchable speeds, and ideally be brand new.

As such this fits the bill perfectly, has anyone heard it or the standard Debut, and what are your opinions of it?

Many thanks
RDD

 

RDD,

I've just bought the Bush MT-1 as a birthday present for my parents. Haven't heard it (but have heard good things about it), as I got Argos to deliver it to them, but they seem very pleased with the sound from it. I'll report back on my opinions next time I head 'up north' to see them.

They've got an elderly Yamaha AV receiver (about 8 years old) and are running it through a tape loop, by using the built-in phono stage, but as their reciever has a phono stage (rare as rocking horse sh-t in this day and age on a receiver), I'll be doing an A to B comparison of both.

The Project Debut Phono SB is the Project Debut II with the optional Phonobox and Speedbox bolted on, saving you the effort of lifting off the platter and changing belt positions. I've had a Debut II for about 18 months or so and am very pleased with it's performance and build quality. Obviously the quality of the LP pressing makes a difference, but 'Hell Freezes Over' by the Eagles sounds absolutely superb!

The Ortofon 5E cart is upgradable too, although I've not really got any justification to change mine. I run my Debut II through a PhonoBox stage into my Yamaha AV receiver (no phono stage on my one), so apart from the speedbox, you're looking at exactly the same product.

 

Thanks for that nsherin,

Yeah I heard good things about it to, maybe I'm just expecting to much but that slight hum during quiet passages is quite clearly audible on my headphones. I could probably live with it as when I'm listening to rock (98% of the time) it sounds pretty good TBH. The other issue is that I'm not overly keen on the look of it either (shallow I know). On the other hand is the (very) slight hum and visual apect worth £110 over the Bush :student:

Do you know how the Speedbox alters the belt positioning given that it's a manual operation on the standard Debut? I've heard that it's quite a good investment to change the cart to, but suspect it will be perfectly good for me (like you).

 

It doesn't - it alters the frequency of the AC to the motor and changes the speed that way - the belt stays in the same position.

 

Thanks, Uncle Ants - I wondered how it did that, myself.

As to whether the Debut II is worth it over the Bush, not having heard both side-by-side, I cannot say.

 

I'd be very, VERY surprised if it wasn't. The Bush may be considered to be good value ... and for about fifty quid it probably is ... in terms of sound quality the Pro-Ject is likely to wee all over it.

 

My first deck was the Bush - and yes the sound is OK for £50 but there was an unacceptable level of motor noise. I then progressed to the Project Deut II with an outboard Project Phono Box. This was a great little deck - a real upgrade. Very musical with especially realistic bass and drums. I now have a Project RPM6 SB with Ortofon MC15 II super. This goes through a MF X-LPS. The Debut is a big improvement over the Bush and I'd say go for it - try to get a second hand one if you can as I suspect there will be a few hardly used examples as many buyers think - oh it'll be great to get back into vinyl and never do - or they try to use the in built phon stage on a cheap amp - deffinatley use a project outbard stage. Don't bother upgrading the cart though as the included one is quite well suited.
Another option may be to go a little more expensive - to the Project expression. This would be worth a cartridge upgrade in the future as the arm is more than capable of taking it - the Debut only has a basic arm
Donut

 

I'm glad someone else noticed this, I was getting worried my mates was faulty or I expected to much.

Thanks again for all the info chaps, a few different avenues to explore there. I've heard it's a good idea to check the set-up on the Debut when you buy it, would you agree?

 

Its probably true of any deck. Donut's right btw. The Debut is quite often listed on ebay for example.

If ugrading the Bush on a budget is the name of the game second hand might be interesting, quite a few rather good jap budget decks from the seventies would give the Debut a run and often go for silly cheap money on ebay and elsewhere (Pioneer PL12D, Sansui 222 or Trio KD1033 - I had one of those once ) In fact there's a mint (allegedly) PL12D going in less than an hour on ebay as we speak (currently at £31.50)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43804&item=5700453390&rd=1

PS. Its nothing to do with me btw, just thought it looked a reasonable buy for a first deck plus has a certain retro chic.

 

The Pioneer PL-12d is a cracking deck. Put a half decent £40 cart on it and will sing like a good un. I replaced mine with a P3, and the pioneer wasn't humbled. Obviously the P3 is better than the Pioneer, but it was certainly as good as the couple of Debut's I've heard.

 

I was looking at the Pioneer TBH but given that my technical knowledge on TT's is very limited (to say the least), buying a cart, stylus (unless they come with one?) and installing/setting it up might be jumping in at the deep end to say the least :WMarrives

It also lacks a built in phono stage so I would have to get one of those (including all leads) to, in the end it might not work out any cheaper than a new Debut SB!!

 

Fitting a cartridge first time is probably a lot more scary than it is difficult (in fact not that difficult at all).

Given that you need a phono stage though, you are probably right about the cost.

 

On the other hand this looks quite tasty, would it be worth keeping an eye on?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=5700512327&rd=1

It also has a Nagaoka MP-11 cart, now if this stayed below about £60 (all in) I could possibly get a cheap phono stage from some kind chap on here....mmmmm

 

Hmm. Others may disagree, but I'd be wary of budget end Jap direct drives - I think you'ld be better off looking for a belt drive model. Something to consider as well is that if you do go secondhand, there's a 50/50 chance you'll need at least a new stylus if not a new cart anyway.

You would almost certainly have to check the cartridge alignment on a secondhand deck if it came with cart and if you can do that without fainting then you have the technical wherewithal to install a new cart (there's enough on this board who'd be willing to give advice on this) - you don't need to spend fortunes on carts - the OM5 that comes with the Debut is all of about 20 quid and the bottom of their 500 range (the 510) is about 40 (I've had one of these and its a great budget cart) - Goldring and Audio Technica have similarly priced budget carts none of which are too bad (or so I've heard).

This might prove better

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=5701341464&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

 

I've had the full-size Bush MT-T2 in my system (I "hired" it from Argos while my P3 was having a new cartridge fitted - naughy, I know, but I wanted to hear the Foo Fighters' latest I'd just got, and hadn't banked on breaking my Dynavector

The Bush isn't that bad, but gets stuck at the drop of a hat. Also, the motor noise IS intrusive - although I didn't notice any hum as such (only played this thru' speakers though).

I've also had a Debut II. I didn't rate it at all (though I like the Debut Mk I), but it was miles ahead of the Bush. Don't get me wrong , the Debut II isn't a bad deck at all, but it didn't float my boat like the Regas do. I reckon the one I had wasn't set up properly to be honest.

As others have said - be WARY of direct drive decks - most are a bit of a dog in my experience.