Promitheus TVC

Morning all,ordered the reference model and still waiting,waiting,waiting.We conducted a shootout with the Bent TVC copper in acustom tiger maple enclosure with a alum. lined interior against a Copland, Loecsh/Weisner and Wright preamps.All the above were embarassed to say the least.A couple of our club members felt the tubed units above might have a smidgen more bloom but the general opinion was not.So why did i order the Promitheus,it has better natural bloom and decay for $600+ less.How do I know this, one of our master builders conducted a test against the bent [which he built].The results were close however the Promitheus was more natural on tone and harmonic structure.The bass was outstanding on both units no winner,the top end was more open and airey with the Promith. not so with the Bent.There was absolutely NO SIBILANCE on the Promith. and only some traces on the Bent.This comparison was with the old design transformers from Bent and Promitheus.When Ireceive my Promitheus with the mk3 trannies we will again have ashoot out with the latest S&Bmk3 bent.Until then I'm stilllllll waiting. Cheers rollo

 

Just for the sake of balance -

Heres my 2p.

Tried it, thought it was ok, quite similar to the music first passive.

....e.g. detailed, quiet, good with acoustic and melow music.

put on dance, reggae or bass heavy music and a wimpy sound ensued.

I thought my active valve pre sounds a lot better and kept it.

Each to their own.

Cheers
Chris.

 

Hey Chris, WOW,very interesting about the bass you heard,we heard the complete opposite does your cdp have an output of less than 3 volts.We used a Lector cdp7tl and Bob Marley was in the house.E. Biggs and his organ shook the place.Not disagreeing with you as this is subjective just very supprised to hear your findings Anyone out there with issues. Cheers rollo

 

well, there is something with TVCs that doesn't suit to everyone, otherwise they would be all over the place. obviously the best thing about promitheus is its price that will allow many undecisive consumers to give TVC a try (including me).
there was a moment when offers for MF flooded s/h ads.

 

I agree with that anubisgrau.

It's good to see transformer based pre-amps around the £500 or less coming out.

It's more like it for a couple of transformers, a couple of pots and a metal box.

 

Good luck with the TVC Rollo! I also do not hear the negatives posted here. It seems the source can make or break a passive / TVC system. Get a strong source and there are no problems with bass. Hell I watch movies with my TVC..the explosions vibrate the couch.

I've already pitted the Bent and Promitheus against one another. I liked them both. I'm waiting waiting waiting for my Reference version Promitheus also. It should be here next week..I hope!

 

GHM, Thanks for the support would be interested in your findings of the comparison of the units.Was told the promitheus has a richer presentation.In our club meeting we used my Opera Cyber 211 monos with ainput sensitivity o.6 volts and a Lector CDP7tl with an output of 3.3 volts.Dynamics through the Pipedreams was to say the least was very realistic.The bass with two M&K 12"subs fed from the Cybers not the preamp[sub set at 52hz Pipes full range,flat to 60hz]was nut rattling.Does anyone run thier subs off the amp without acrossover it can be awonderfull thing cheers rollo

 

I've jsut been listening to some propellor heads through my TVC and my gosh the room was shaking.

 

Rollo,

that's some serious equipment you fellows were using! I use two NON OS DACs . One being the Audio Sector and the other the Mhdt Labs Paradisea with tubed buffer stage. With the TVC hearing the difference in source output is very easy. The Paradisea is definitely a better match. Not sure on the voltage output, but it was stronger than the Arcam DV27 at 2.5 volts that was also on hand. I would guess its output is around 3 volts or better.

I borrowed the Bent from a friend. The differences were hard to pick out. I have them at a draw. Each time I thought I heard more inner detail on one. I would switch to the other..it was basically the same.

I told one of my friends last night about the insufficient bass comment posted here . He had a good laugh! I just sold his active tube preamp because the Promitheus V2 crushed it across the board. Including in the bass department... as always YMMV.

 

For Those Waiting For Promitheus Preamps

To try and help out a zero gain member I got in touch with Nicholas re whereabouts of preamps for some uk orders - including a friend of mine - no problems he is just up to his eyes with orders and testing - he tests evrything pretty thoroughly before it goes out I gather. So - he hasn't vanished, as I have said before my dealings with him have been excellent but think he's now getting a lot of orders unurprisingly.

 

as indeed it did! (my mileage that is)

....I'm just glad I don't have his active pre-amp if it has less bass than THAT...

 

Chris,

you aren't the only one who found the TVC lacking, particularly in the bass. Maybe Murray uncovered something with the ringing issue?

 

It would be interesting to see how the Promitheus rings in comparison to the S&B.

Not likely the cause of bass issues though, since the ringing is around 50KHz.

 

The Sowter versions might be worth a look. They claim not to suffer the ringing found on the S&B versions.

http://www.sowter.co.uk/attens.htm

 

LOL..man you fellows try to make it seem as the TVC is at fault. When the answer is your source. As mentioned earlier ringing at 50kHz..shouldn't effect frequencies at 30Hz I would think.

I'm certainly not saying a TVC will be for all.. it's not..just like a Tube or SS active pre won't work for all. Getting the system to work as one is the key..apparently some systems aren't setup well for TVCs. Too bad I live on the other side of the pond. I would have no problems proving to any that the TVCs aren't short on bass in the least bit. They only reveal what they are fed. You feed them a source with weak ass bass..you get weak ass bass.

Good listening

 

I don't know about that.... maybe?

I'm always dubious when a small number of new posters visit and start praising a new product... I mean.. how do you know who they are, if they work for the manufacturer, the distributor or have some other motive?

When people have been here a while you know who they are and what they do.

I may be overly cautious/cynical .. probably in fact.

If I disagree (strongly) I like to give my opinion - - otherwise silence gives the impression of agreement.

I think people should try transformer passives if given the opportunity to do so and make their own mind up.

And no, it's not my source, amplifier, speakers, cables, nodding dog statue on top of the telly nor the car I drive that causes me to find transformer passives clear & detailed but bass light and lacking punch.

 

I'm new to Zero Gain..but not new to the major forums(Audiosylum, Audiogon, AudioCircle). Which I post in frequently. Well over thousand post to be honest. I have nothing to gain here. I just saw another audiophile that enjoys TVCs and decided to post. Hopefully there's nothing wrong with that. If I praised your tubed preamp..you'd be a happy camper..different strokes for different folks.

I agree folks should find out on their own. Mine or anyone elses opinion really doesn't matter any way. It's best to hear one in your room with your equipment. I would hate to see people dismiss a product by close minded thinking. There's one thing I've learned in this hobby. You gotta try different components and mix and match to find that sound that will work for you..the chances are someone elses preferences will not.

Good listening

 

My issues with the (2 now) TVC's I've tried have been mainly with the reproduction of instrument timbre particularly strings & brass. I suspect this is down to some ringing in the transformers.
I also found that the character of both pre amps changed for the worse as more attenuation was applied. I had no particular problem with the bass performance of either TVC.

If someone is making a TVC which is available, delivered, for £180 as this Promitheus seems to be then that would seem to represent good value particularly if its performance is roughly on a par with the MFA TVC.

I still feel that such 'pre-amps' fall some way short of the performance of the better active linestages I've listened to, but as an affordable way of controlling volume this one might be worth looking at.

 

We need to get a little perspective here surely.

When I first heard the S&B (copper) transformers I had reservations when compared to my active pre. This was in an unfamiliar system. I've since heard them on two other occasions and once in my own system and while I wouldn't wish to replace my active pre I found my initial objections largely absent.

I've also tried the older transformers originally fitted into the MF and these also performed well.

It has been said before but it is worth repeating.
The choice between pot/stepped attenuator, TVC and active is largely dependent on the load and source impedance.
Having said that, the differences between all three (when correctly load matched) are tiny when compared to the sort of damage done to the signal by poorly specified amps, cartridges, speakers etc.

A lot of bother about nothing in other words

 

If you're referring to the ones I gave you, they are from the Django. I'm not sure how the MK1 and MK2 S&B's sound.