record condition description

what does the
EX
M M
E+/E+
+F/NM
SS / SS

etc. descriptions mean?

can someone give me a break down of what all these different descriptions mean? the various sites seem to use all kinds of descriptions without a common thread. some are obvious, but some seem really unclear. one site said that it used the standard record collector magazine scale... i don't think i've ever even seen this magazine.....

 

Most professional sellers use this range to grade their records: http://www.collectorshelp.com/grademain.htm, and some sellers tend to 'round up' the condition of their records to at least a VG!
But some amateur sellers are not aware of these gradings and list a record as being in 'Good condition' when it is probably close to Mint!

Confused? - buy enough used vinyl and you will be!

I think that if you see 'EX/VG' it should mean a record in Excellent condition with a cover in Very Good nick. Yet another thing to be aware of is that some Americans don't recognise the 'Excellent' grade and blur the 'M-' into the 'VG+'

'Record Collector' is available in most large newsagents:

 

Many sellers will classify their vinyl as 'MINT', this is a common trend in sales tactics trying to make the buyer believe they are getting a very well kept record.
However, the truth of it is, 'mint' actually means the record has never been played and ideally the package is still sealed. Now how many of those do you see around?!
Myself, I have been buying buying vinyl for years and have to say that it is quite common that sellers do not know how to classify the true condition of their vinyl, or do not want to as many peices of vinyl I have seen are at best Good (G), Good does not mean Bad! A record in Good or Good Plus condition can be put onto a turntable and will play through without skipping. But it will have significant surface noise and scratches and visible groove wear (on a styrene record, the groove will be starting to turn white).
The other major niggle I have with sellers of vinyl (especially the ebay type), is that they have no idea how to package and ship vinyl. I have seen levels poor packaging that I am lost for words to describe! One springs to mind, a record worth £50.00 was shipped through the mail purely wrapped in what looked like old 1970's flowered wall-paper off-cuts.
Granted, I spent many years in the field of Quality Control and Management and have run exstensive tests on various types of packaging and also know how packages are handled through the distribution/postal system, so I always place a condition on the terms of sale with any seller that I will not accept any package which I deem to be poorly packaged. On ebay sales my terms extend to leaving negative feedback for any seller not taking adequate effort to package vinyl properly.
There are correct vinyl mailers out there, I just wish all sellers would use them!

 

...sorry, while I had been recently ranting over poor packaging I received a delivery of 3xCD's this mornign from an ebay seller. Very poor attempts to package properly. Items wrapped in a cheap quality and used single layer bubble wrap then selotaped together using A4 white paper as covering!

Would have let it slip if postage costs were cheap to match the packaging, but I was charged industry rate for shipping multiple CD's in correct packaging.

People, you want to sell your vinyl and CD's, then take the time to ensure you can package them correctly

 

Yes I had a record sent to me wrapped in a sheet of brown paper, nothing else. Needless to say the cover was ruined.

Alot of the time the record gradings might just as well be ignored on places like ebay when they know they can get away with it, not everyone is like that of course but I've had countless records arriving listed as mint with creased covers, bits of print missing, scratches etc. Most of the time its not worth mentioning. I mentioned it once though, I bought a rarity from a guy listing as mint with the usual waffle (its 'mint' BUT theres a small crease or something along those lines). When it arrved there was a bloody great strip of print missing off one corner which looked as though someone had later spilt some tea over it, dog eared corners and clear signs of use. I mailed him back and he seemed to get very upset and started demanding I send it back to a refund cuz he has a buyer elsewhere prepared to pay triple what I payed?! WTF? Not likely, send me his mail address though!
Its a dodgy pressing anyway, the leadout grooves don't work properly and if you don't catch it at the end of each of the sides it launches the arm and cart straight into the record clamp.

 

thanks. all the joys to look forward too!

 

The record Collector's grading system seems to be the standard in the UK, but is a little hazy...I have expanded it a little for the purposes of my ads, but of course, that then makes it my definitions. In reality it is of course completely subjective....if you are looking at fleabay, I would suggest first & foremost look for a seller (of vinyl!) with good feedback:

All items are visually graded using Record Collector magazine grading system (as per the small print).

THE ITALIC CAPITALS EXPLAIN HOW I TRANSLATE THAT GRADING SYSTEM INTO THE REAL WORLD!

Mint: Record is in brand new condition with no surface marks or deterioration in sound quality. Cover in perfect condition.

I VERY RARELY GRADE AS MINT!! 'NEAR MINT' MEANS UNMARKED VINYL, NO NOTICEABLE SPINDLE MARKS ON THE LABEL, LOOKS UNPLAYED.

Excellent: Record shows some signs of having been played, but there is very little lessening in sound quality. Cover & packaging may have slight wear and/or creasing.

I GRADE RECORDS AS EXCELLENT IF THEY HAVE NO NOTICEABLE MARKS ON THE VINYL & MINIMAL SPINDLE MARKS. A SINGLE SIGNIFICANT MARK WILL DOWNGRADE IT TO A 'VERY GOOD'.

Very Good: Record has obviously been played many times, but displays no major deterioration in sound quality, despite noticeable surface marks and the occasional light scratch. Normal wear and tear on the cover or extra items, without any major defects, is acceptable.

I GRADE RECORDS AS VERY GOOD IF THEY HAVE MINOR SCUFFS, MAYBE SOME VERY LIGHT NEEDLE MARKS - LOOKS LIKE IT HAS BEEN PLAYED A FEW TIMES, BUT HAS NO MAJOR FLAWS. THERE MAY BE AN OCCASIONAL REPETITIVE CLICK FROM A MARK OVER A SMALL SEGMENT OF THE RECORD, BUT NOTHING SERIOUS ENOUGH TO DETRACT FROM OVERALL LISTENING TO THE RECORD. RECORDS THAT ARE BORDERLINE BETWEEN EXCELLENT & VERY GOOD ARE GRADED 'VERY GOOD+'

Good: Record has been played so much that the sound quality has noticeably deteriorated, perhaps with some distortion & mild scratches. Cover and contents suffer from folding, scuffing, spine splits, discolouration etc.

I GRADE RECORDS AS GOOD IF THEY HAVE HEAVIER SCUFFS, AND/OR SOME LIGHT SCRATCHES OR NEEDLE MARKS - LOOKS LIKE IT HAS BEEN PLAYED MANY TIMES. SOME BACKGROUND NOISE, DISTORTION, RECURRING REPETITIVE TICS ETC BUT NOT UNLISTENABLE.

Fair: The record is still just playable but has not been cared for properly and displays considerable surface noise: it may even jump. Cover will be torn, stained and/or defaced.

IT IS RARE I WILL SELL THESE - ONLY IF REALLY COLLECTABLE. THE RECORD MAY JUMP, MAY BE BADLY SCUFFED & SCRATCHED.

Poor: The record will not play properly due to scratches, bad surface noise etc. Cover will be badly damaged or partly missing.

NOT WORTH SELLING!!

Good luck..

 

I guess thats e-bay for you.

When Ive bought from reputable dealers on netsounds, I havent had any problems at all.

Anyway, half the fun is rumaging through second hand shops and walking away with some new music.

Got a TT yet Blake?

 

ummm, maybe. i was actually looking at netsounds myself, which was were i saw this whole rating system...

 

Netsounds is a very good online resource, so is GEMM, in fact I have run virtual record stores on both before but always had better results with GEMM.

 

do you have a link for gemm?

 

http://www.gemm.com

 

thanks.

 

I haven't seen Gemm before, looks good. Thanks for the info guys

 

BTW, I've learnt not to leave positive feedback until I've listened to the record properly. I've bought some where the cover & vinyl was minty mint and then cried into my cocoa after listening to 20 minutes of heavily-worn smudge

DT

 

theres loads of stories about stuff like that, using shoe polish on the records etc. to make them look mint when they're totally fugazi

 

Shoe polish!?

Wouldn't that smell a bit..............distinctive?

 

I dunno, just stuff I've heard

 

Anytime, just note though that GEMM charges the buyer an extra 15% on top of the sellers total invoice cost (cost of item plus postage). With my own GEMM store I set the buy price to 'bid' and request that any interested customers email me before placing an order.
I can then give them the option to buy via the GEMM system or direct. If they buy direct I just send them a PayPal invoice.

 

Thats interesting cause netsounds charge the seller 18% of total sales according to a shop I bought from via the site. Netsounds prices can be pretty good too.